Everyone Dropping Like Flies

So many posts who are now known as Guest on this forum.




Stop leaving me!

I wonder if I change my name to "Guest", if everyone will think that I made those posts.

I think if the benefits of leaving outweigh the benefits of staying, we'd all leave.

I can't imagine bailing without saying a word though. Everyone's different.

i am guessing that there are more than just me that feel more like a square peg here.  It isn't the same place anymore.  If it were not for some of the music news, I would have permanently left when I took my two week break.

I have been out of it the past week, so I don't feel much tension even though its plain to see


I have had thoughts in the past about leaving which I'm sure some of you saw a long time ago

but at this point I don't see myself leaving anytime in the future

so if I'm your problem, get used to it! I'm not going anywhere anytime soon
 

(Honestly I hope I am not anyone's reason for disliking the community here, if so feel free to PM me)

alldatndensum wrote:i am guessing that there are more than just me that feel more like a square peg here.

I would think anyone who's a Christian and likes metal would feel at home here.
...at least I feel at home here.

ThomasEversole wrote:

alldatndensum wrote:i am guessing that there are more than just me that feel more like a square peg here.

I would think anyone who's a Christian and likes metal would feel at home here.
...at least I feel at home here.

You can add me to the square peg list.

I am a Christian and I used to love metal as a teenager, sad thing is theres no communities that come close to the stuff I really like. If you notice any music threads I start which is not many they either die out quick or get filled with weird sarcastic remarks. I dont dislike metal now but i dont love it either.

ThomasEversole wrote:

alldatndensum wrote:i am guessing that there are more than just me that feel more like a square peg here.

I would think anyone who's a Christian and likes metal would feel at home here.
...at least I feel at home here.

Well, I think there are a number of things going on here.  For one, there's been a big turnover in who participates in the board over the years, and a lot of people who used to post a lot and really drove the direction of the board aren't really here any more for one reason or another.  While certainly not a homogeneous group, these people shared a lot of similarities in terms of musical tastes and worldview, likely at least influenced by the fact that they were in the same general age demographic which gave them a similar cultural context.  Now that most of those people are gone, those who still remain (like alldat and to a lesser degree myself) feel like this really the same place we used to spend hours of our lives on (didn't you have 10,000+ posts before the hack alldat?).  Most of the new people who have come in to the board are, for one, younger than us and have a different cultural context.  We grew up when "classic rock" was just called "rock".  I still remember the "oh crap" feeling I had the first time I heard "Welcome to Jungle" sandwiched between The Beatles' "Come Together" and the Rolling Stones "Paint it Black" on the classic rock station.  A lot of us grew up during the hey day of the anti-rock travelling evangelists and the PMRC and some of us still feel conflicted over the Christian music/secular music questions.  When I was that age, I was strongly a "Christian-only" listener.  I remember the rift in my church youth group when one girl openly admitted she loved Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet album.  Yeah, it sounds silly, but it was real.  It was also during the early fragmentation of metal.  Most of us were into classic metal/NWOBHM, glam, and a little thrash (Vengeance Rising Human Sacrifice and Deliverance's debut were both released around my senior year of high school).  Extreme metal wasn't even really on our radar and the -core styles weren't even a twinkle on the horizon.  When you look at a lot of the music discussions here now, very few of them are about the kinds of metal many of us like.  I don't feel as out of place as perhaps alldat and others may because I did get into extreme metal and metalcore, but I can understand why a lot of the people who were here when I joined don't feel at home with the music discussions anymore--it isn't music they care to discuss.

As for Christians...I'll go back to the cultural context.  When we were developing our values and faith perspectives, there wasn't as much...ready input from outside sources.  Megachurches weren't the big phenomenon it is now.  You were pretty much rooted in a church in your community.  The preachers on television were people like Jimmy Swaggart, Jim & Tammy Bakker, Robert Tilton...pretty much old school Southern Fundamentalism or Pentacostal charlatans trying to scam money out of viewers.  I guess Kenneth Hagin and the WoF people were starting to get a foothold too.  Quite frankly, the Christian landscape has changed radically and there is, as we have seen play out over and over again, a lot of conflict over what actually constitutes "Christian" thought and teaching.  Combined with that is just a general view of how to handle conflict.  A lot of us "old timers" grew up with the understanding that people are going to think and believe differently than we do.  We might all be wrong, but we can't all be right.  Let's just say what we think is right and if people agree, wonderful.  If not, oh well.  We'll see who's right eventually, let's talk about something else.  Sure, some people still had the idea that the world was made up of two types of people:  people who think like us and people who are wrong and need to be straightened out, but it wasn't to the degree it is now.  Honestly, the thing that has had me on the verge of deleting my account here more times than anything else has been the fact that we can't just disagree and move on.  There are those who have to beat people over the head with the fact that they think other people are wrong on something.  There are those who have gotten their feelings hurt in one thread and passive-aggressively bring it up in every other daggone thread they post in.  People act like total


and then blame others for how they act.  You know, some of us Christians just like to talk about matters of faith and belief and doctrine because we enjoy those lines of thinking, but we have a difficult time doing it here NOT because of our Draconian overlords (Kerrick, Exo, you're still ok with that title, right?  ) as some would claim, but because someone always has to come along and ruin it by calling people Pharisees or bashing all forms of doctrine because they are just the rules of man and Christianity is all about relationship or say people are being divisive by speaking out against doctrines that go against the core of the Bible teachings (which apparently we can't actually trust since it wasn't passed down out of Heaven on golden tablets borne by the Holy Spirit) and then get all bent out of shape when when someone calls them on it because apparently there is the idea that it is ok to refer to the beliefs of others as the doctrine of demons, but you had better not say anything bad about what I believe because that will hurt my feelings and make me feel threatened and bullied.

Ok, somewhere in there I got off topic.  Anyway, my point is anyone who is a Christian and likes metal should feel at home here, but since there is a discrepancy regarding what forms of Christianity are accepted with a vocal minority bashing "traditional" Christianity and since "metal" is such a broad label that covers a whole lot of different types of music, not all of which are everyone's taste, I can understand why some people wouldn't feel that way.

I try not to have a "back in 1998" mentality, even though part of me really wants to and I do succumb to it from time to time. Me being a fan of extreme metal more than any other metal sub-genre, I consciously try to have a "close enough" camaraderie with people online. If I only associated with those who listened to 90% black metal like myself, I would be hanging out alone in a corn field and talking to 10 people online. I've found there are actually quite a few core bands that share elements of music that I like. (like atmosphere, going fast, variety and being concept based)

That's the music aspect.

For the spiritual aspect, as long as someone has Christ in their heart, that's close enough for me. I never understood the hubbub behind the different "ists" brow beating each other over something that's 1) no one else's business 2) that doesn't matter 100 years from now when we're in the presence of God.

For the sake of empathy though, I do understand how someone would feel like they wouldn't fit in among other Christians - aside from music. Sorry if this drops anyone else's jaw, but I haven't been to a church service in probably 10 years or more? I feel like I either get ignored or smothered. Plus, its just weird for everyone to sit facing the same direction, singing songs from centuries ago and watching someone in a suit change topics more than he blinks.

I meet with others in Christ and for Christ regularly, but its much different than the church format.

As for bullying, in high school, I found myself bullying bullies. Sticking up for the underdogs and those bullied by them. Probably because I had a senior pick on anyone who bullied me when I was a freshman.

I've found that some of that has bled over to my behavior here. No way would I "pick" on someone because of their beliefs, or blame others because I do this. Its wrong, totally my fault and its something I'm working on. All I can say as to why I do this is because I just took it upon myself to teach them empathy by showing what a jerk they are, even if it means making myself look like a jerk in the process.

I've actually left this forum several times mostly cuz I just got bored. I think this my 2nd or 3rd login. I don't usually feel at home in online forums cuz my personality and sense of humor often get misunderstood. On a side note, did anyone check out the Anderson East album I mentioned in the aliens thread? Good album but I'm bored with it already....
Anyway that's why I don't post that much...cuz I'm only here in spurts of a few weeks/months at a time...

There has been alot of good points made in this thread...One thing I will add is that a huge huge thing missing from this forum is forgiveness... No one (that means all of us) expresses much ..if any effort.. to forgive someone when they get offended... That leads to bitterness and kills the love, acceptance of tolerance that Jesus taught...and eventually people leave. I think age may also play apart in people leaving... I am soon to turn 50. I really dont have anything in common with most people under 35 or so.. I enjoy nostalgia but its hard to talk about some old movie or book or band with someone who doesn't even know who you are talking about.. I have noticed this board go very extreme/black metal..a genre I have no interest in. I looked at the christian metal page and counted only 6 bands on the whole page I listen to.. A huge amount of bands talked about I have never heard of...at the same time I understand how someone who is 15, 25 or 30 or whatever would have no interest in 70s or 80s bands.. even on the secular page there isn't many bands of old that people on this forum care about.. when i buy a new release its usually a new release by an old artist like Judas Priest or Iron Maiden or a new band with an old sound like hammerfall or crashdiet or enforcer..
Alot of the old timers went over to the Christian Hard Music site and thats ok...They have a thread about the CMR over there so if you want to know why they left go check it out. I also think that forums can be difficult ...especially christian forums.. because there are so many beliefs and because people come from all over the world..whats ok to one person or culture or even state may not be acceptable to another...and when those subjects are brought up it brings discord..
The last issue is change...seems like once a person on this forum is branded with a certain personality or belief about them no one will accept that they can change...no matter how hard they try no one will see or accept the change because minds have already been made up...I know some here dont like me or my beliefs much and thats ok..Let me use this time to come clean...I dont really believe in much of any of this stuff.. I believe in God and I believe in Jesus and I dont really care who or what anyone else believes and thats pretty much where it ends. Truthfully its all the views on this forum that got me to becoming really interested in studying religion and all the different views and truthfully realizing there were so many views and so many religions and so many doctrines within Christianity really pushed me away from it all..AT the end of the day I pretty much say Love God and Love others and nothing else matters...

Savage Amusement wrote:.at the same time I understand how someone who is 15, 25 or 30 or whatever would have no interest in 70s or 80s bands..

I myself love 70s and 80s bands but only Christian in that regard

Thats why I myself love when I find bands like Crystavox that I can take to you guys and get opinions from people who were there when the music came out

anyway thats not really on topic but thats one thing I love about the board

Savage Amusement wrote:There has been alot of good points made in this thread...One thing I will add is that a huge huge thing missing from this forum is forgiveness... No one (that means all of us) expresses much ..if any effort.. to forgive someone when they get offended...

Well said.  I think it's true for the internet as a whole.

I had an experience like this the other day when I made a comment on Facebook which someone took issue with. This guy let me know just how he felt about what I said. I wanted to fire off a comment, but I felt the Spirit say to me "Turn the other cheek". It wasn't easy, but I did it. And I'm sure glad I did.

Bjorn

Savage Amusement wrote:I have noticed this board go very extreme/black metal..a genre I have no interest in. I looked at the christian metal page and counted only 6 bands on the whole page I listen to.. A huge amount of bands talked about I have never heard of...

Maybe the grass is greener on the other side of the fence?  It seems like everywhere I look its discussion of old school heavy/power/glam metal and hard rock.

...and you listen(ed) to 4 more bands on the Christian metal page than I do/have. (and one of those "bands" was my own music)

I signed up to this forum last week and over the days I really got the impression of this forum as some kind of post-warzone. The fact that I remembered seeing a theology subforum on this forum and not anymore, made me fear the worst. And indeed, apparently there's been trouble about how to one should interpret christianity, and now people don't get along with each other anymore.

This will not stop me from visiting, I like this place and what it can be. I joined here because I like to read stuff about the music I love from a christian perspective. Also to take part in discussions about it, something I really miss in "real life" since my wife isn't much of a metalhead and she has a less theological mindset than I have. I'm glad to see it's still possible, but apparently it can be so much more here.
Also, I have a very thick skin, and I'm unusually patient with people, even over the internet. I made it through Tom Hess' reign of terror on the Rhapsody of Fire forum while at the same time being vocal, and this seems like a way more reasonable place.

So I really hope that you people can get over what happened, I really hate it when people don't get along anymore. Especially when they're christians.

Andreas89 wrote:I signed up to this forum last week and over the days I really got the impression of this forum as some kind of post-warzone. The fact that I remembered seeing a theology subforum on this forum and not anymore, made me fear the worst. And indeed, apparently there's been trouble about how to one should interpret christianity, and now people don't get along with each other anymore.

I think the problem is, there's some members here that don't see Christianity as something to be "interpreted".
There's one way, the "right" way, and they have it. If you have a different view, then you're wrong. ....and you will be notified of that. ...and periodically reminded of it from thread to thread.

The other side of that (with people like myself and I've certainly played my part) is that no one here can "correct" anyone without unleashing a full on counter-strike. If you tell someone that their doctrinal belief is wrong, then you're a chaos agent, judgemental, not minding your own business, big corporate religion, etc. ....and you will be notified of that. ...and periodically reminded of it from thread to thread.

Couple that with miscommunication, someone having a bad day away from the computer, lack of forgiveness, letting it go, gotta' get the last word in, etc. and what you see is the tired heap of the remnants of war.

I don't think there's a blanket solution, since there's not a blanket problem. Well, I take that back - ego is the blanket problem.
Ironically, ego to the corrector has convinced him that its righteousness and scriptural. Ego to the corrected has convinced him that its apologetics and fighting "religion" to keep things spiritual / open to interpretation.

My opinion, it all goes back to the ones doing the correcting. If you're walking down the sidewalk and see a nicely dressed man with his fly down, does he say "Thanks" when you point it out to him? ....or does he get mad at you because you're looking at his crotch?
Myself, I think it should be left alone. No ones going to lose or ruin their life from a fly down and he's 50 minutes from that cup of coffee to discovering it himself at a urinal.

Live and let live, especially if they're saved. So you see someone with their fly down, well, at least they have pants on.

Andreas89 wrote:So I really hope that you people can get over what happened, I really hate it when people don't get along anymore. Especially when they're christians.

Here here!

Savage Amusement wrote:...AT the end of the day I pretty much say Love God and Love others and nothing else matters...

I'm  pretty sure Jesus said something like that.

I had a few different reasons for disappearing. One of them was that I was starting to take things personally. I knew it was time to step back and take a break. Recently,  I had been thinking it might be time to come back and reading this thread sorta confirmed it for me. Soooo, like it or not, Dude's back.

ThomasEversole wrote:Live and let live, especially if they're saved.  So you see someone with their fly down, well, at least they have pants on.

Its funny yet the most right thing I have read all day.

Great analogy Thomas!

Hardcore Christian wrote:

ThomasEversole wrote:Live and let live, especially if they're saved.  So you see someone with their fly down, well, at least they have pants on.

Its funny yet the most right thing I have read all day.

Great analogy Thomas!

I seriously lol'd. Because it is so right and so random at the same time.

metaldude wrote:

Savage Amusement wrote:...AT the end of the day I pretty much say Love God and Love others and nothing else matters...

I'm  pretty sure Jesus said something like that.

I had a few different reasons for disappearing. One of them was that I was starting to take things personally. I knew it was time to step back and take a break. Recently,  I had been thinking it might be time to come back and reading this thread sorta confirmed it for me. Soooo, like it or not, Dude's back.

Yes!

Andreas89 wrote:I signed up to this forum last week and over the days I really got the impression of this forum as some kind of post-warzone. The fact that I remembered seeing a theology subforum on this forum and not anymore, made me fear the worst. And indeed, apparently there's been trouble about how to one should interpret christianity, and now people don't get along with each other anymore.

This will not stop me from visiting, I like this place and what it can be. I joined here because I like to read stuff about the music I love from a christian perspective. Also to take part in discussions about it, something I really miss in "real life" since my wife isn't much of a metalhead and she has a less theological mindset than I have. I'm glad to see it's still possible, but apparently it can be so much more here.
Also, I have a very thick skin, and I'm unusually patient with people, even over the internet. I made it through Tom Hess' reign of terror on the Rhapsody of Fire forum while at the same time being vocal, and this seems like a way more reasonable place.

So I really hope that you people can get over what happened, I really hate it when people don't get along anymore. Especially when they're christians.

Hey, welcome.  Glad you are sticking around.  I understand why you are getting the post-war impression of this forum, but I have no idea why it is that we are giving it off.  I guess that is what is most confusing about everything.  Yes, there used to be a dedicated theology section, but (long story short) people weren't able to disagree civilly in there and those disagreements were spilling out into the other threads, so the administrators thought it was best to just shut it down.  As far as people not getting along, for the most part we all play nice.  Of course we are all from different backgrounds, there are some different ideas about politics and religion, but most of us know how to express our opinions and viewpoints without belittling others or their viewpoints.  I think you've just come in at a time when there has been some turnover in the membership.  Some people have grown tired of the bickering, some people have felt attacked, some people have just moved on.  I dunno, maybe I'm more clueless than I think I am or maybe I just expect this kind of thing to happen with a group of people, but overall I don't really feel like the tone of things around here is all that much different than they have been.  It is just a different group of people who are getting bent out of shape over something or other.  It's just that part of the cycle.

I get the "post war zone" impression.....but this place has been an absolute sea of tranquility and peace over the last year or so, especially in comparison to 2012-2014.  A few folks are still adjusting and learning how to "play nice" under our latest rules revision....but they are makin good faith efforts to play within the boundaries, and it's noticeable.  Personally, as a staff member, I've stopped dreading "checking up" on threads, and I can't really relay how big a difference that is in the spirit of the CMR........