Re: Heaven

by Guest Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:21 pm

Adam wrote:We should all be truthseekers.

There is only one way of salvation, and that's through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and our belief in Him as risen Lord.

That's black and white. We're all either right or wrong on that matter. There is no in betweens or maybes.

You got that right brother!!!

In the meantime ... doctrine ... can be so divisive. Ya know?

by d@v!d Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:32 pm

Oh come on guys! Y'all be screwing up a perfectly good opportunity here. Need I remind y'alls that Kerrick's away? Stop all this peaceful ecumenicism talk and start cutting each other down.

by Guest Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:35 pm

by Guest Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:44 pm

There was a time (or times actually) when I was thinking a lot about heaven.

As a child I thought about it like a child, what would I play there and with whom I´d play there. I saw myself as a child in heaven, with my parents and grandparents. When I realized that my father was atheist it became too painful to think.

As a teenager I didn´t think about it much, or at all.

When I was at my early 20´s my girlfriend died in a sudden car accident. I loved her dearly.. and miss her still after these years and though I´m happily married she has the special place in my heart. And she´ll be there until I die.
After her death I thought a lot about heaven, about reuniting with her there.

Nowadays I don´t think about heaven. I fully believe it is my final destiny, but my life is on earth, with my family. Heaven isn´t the reason why I believe. It is just "part of the package".

After this walk is over, I´ll see it. And that´s enough for me now.

The closest moments I am at the gates of heaven are the moments when my child comes to my lap and says "dad, I love you". If heaven is better than that, It´s a good place.

by d@v!d Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:11 pm

Stand against the wind wrote:There was a time (or times actually) when I was thinking a lot about heaven.

As a child I thought about it like a child, what would I play there and with whom I´d play there. I saw myself as a child in heaven, with my parents and grandparents. When I realized that my father was atheist it became too painful to think.

As a teenager I didn´t think about it much, or at all.

When I was at my early 20´s my girlfriend died in a sudden car accident. I loved her dearly.. and miss her still after these years and though I´m happily married she has the special place in my heart. And she´ll be there until I die.
After her death I thought a lot about heaven, about reuniting with her there.

Nowadays I don´t think about heaven. I fully believe it is my final destiny, but my life is on earth, with my family. Heaven isn´t the reason why I believe. It is just "part of the package".

After this walk is over, I´ll see it. And that´s enough for me now.

The closest moments I am at the gates of heaven are the moments when my child comes to my lap and says "dad, I love you". If heaven is better than that, It´s a good place.

by MegaNorm64 Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:24 pm

d@v!d wrote:Oh come on guys! Y'all be screwing up a perfectly good opportunity here. Need I remind y'alls that Kerrick's away? Stop all this peaceful ecumenicism talk and start cutting each other down.

You are all noobs. Heaven is made of chocolate.

by d@v!d Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:26 pm

ParaNormaN wrote:
d@v!d wrote:Oh come on guys! Y'all be screwing up a perfectly good opportunity here. Need I remind y'alls that Kerrick's away? Stop all this peaceful ecumenicism talk and start cutting each other down.
You are all noobs. Heaven is made of chocolate.

That's what I'm talking about Mr. Pencil!

by Deepfriar Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:30 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:What do you think heaven will be like?

- What will we know? Will we remember our time on earth? If so, how much will we remember?
- Will we "own" anything in heaven? ...like have possessions?
- Assuming we'll maintain our gender in heaven, will there be sex?
- Will there be new births in heaven or will heaven be a set number for eternity?
- Will there be animals in heaven? ...more specifically, animals we had?
- Will heaven be serious, or humorous? Emotional ranges?
- Is there free-will in heaven?

I'll just answer your questions simply and honestly with my opinions.

I think heaven will be very beautiful, lots of colors. Life and joy everywhere. Throne of God, sea of glass, all that jazz. Lots of cool stuff.

I think we'll remember everything about our time on earth, and it will seem like a distant memory but a fond one.

I think we'll own things, but probably won't feel the need for so many distractions like we have on earth.

I am not so sure there will be sex. It is a nice thought. Lol.

I don't know that there will be new births in heaven but I believe there will be humans living on earth as well and there will be new births among them. I'm not sure all the logistics, honestly. Just speculation.

I definitely believe there will be animals, and I think the Bible supports it too. Our pets? I say yes. I am a pet lover and I can't imagine the amount of love I feel for mine (even the ones who are no longer with me) going to waste for eternity. They are so intuitive and our bond with them is very special.

I believe heaven will be joyous. Everyone will be smiling. There will be singing and music etc. especially around the throne of God and heavenly beings (including us) will spread outward for God knows how long. I believe there will be lots of beauty, the most crystal clear water you can imagine, and fruit/vegetables so delicioius you can't possibly imagine. If there are humans down on earth too maybe we can charge them some heavenly currency for our crops! (LOL! J/K!)

As you can see I believe humor will still be "a thing," but a more silly, innocent humor will likely be prevalent. Perhaps sarcasm as well, but I just don't know lol.

Free will? Absolutely. The whole Creation/plan of salvation was to preserve us with free will, who choose God willingly. I don't think we'll ever stray though, without our flesh to get in the way. We are God's children, His family, and He withholds no good thing from us as He promises in His Word! Hallelujah!

Hope this gives you some insight into how I think. Smile

Grace and peace be unto you from God the Father and from our Lord Jesus Christ.

by messiaen77 Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:42 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:
ThomasEversole wrote:This is a ground for volunteering ideas and information, not disputing them.

Is what's mentioned in this quote too much to ask for?
Can the Christians here not talk about ANY Christian topic without it being a Bible fight? What's wrong with this place?

Why don't we all (especially me) go about just this thread with a take what you like and leave the rest mentality? It's not like being wrong about what heaven is like spells damnation or that any of us REALLY know a firsthand perspective about this.

Ok, deep breath...there we go. No one was fighting, no one was disputing anything. I simply asked how we were supposed to discuss a theological topic without bringing theology into the discussion. Theology is not a bad thing, it is simply how we understand God.

sentient 6 wrote:The only grounds I have as a Christian to discuss such things is the Word of God as revealed in the scriptures.....so just to start off..

The issue of sex and related themes might be answered by Jesus here...

Matthew 22:29-32English Standard Version (ESV)
²⁹But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. ³⁰For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Seems pretty clear to me.

sentient 6 wrote:
RavenWolf wrote:
I wonder why people here cannot discuss this without fighting? How sad.

I haven't noticed fighting. But I'm sure people are unsure what is safe to talk about when " theology " has been banned here.

To the topic, I believe our minds cannot fathom what Heaven will be like. Much in the same way our limited minds cannot fathom the misery and torment of The Lake of Fire. But I do believe in essence Heaven is worshipping and enjoying God for all eternity. I believe we will truly be satisfied with God alone and will not even care one once for the things we cared about here on earth.

In a stunning turn of events, I completely agree with S6 here.

ThomasEversole wrote:
Since Sentient 6 contributed scripture to the thread, I'd like to do the same.

2 Corinthians 12:2 (NIV)

"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows."

Obviously if a 3rd heaven is mentioned, there must be a 1st and 2nd...

In the ancient world, there was a common view that held that there were three "heavens". The first was the immediate atmosphere, the second is what we think of as outer space, and the third was the realm of God.

ThomasEversole wrote:
Adam wrote:
Q: Will heaven be serious, or humorous? Emotional ranges?
A: Both. We will have our personalities and our ups and downs. God has sadness in heaven right now, so will we.

Sadness in heaven? So Revelation 21:4 won't kick in until we get there?
I'm not disputing that, I'm just a little confused. Does someone have an explanation?

Yeah, I was just going to chime in with that.

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Sounds like a no on sorrow. Obviously it will be joyous, being in the presence of God 24/7 (figuratively speaking, I don't believe time will continue to be measured).

RavenWolf

Adam wrote:We should all be truthseekers.

There is only one way of salvation, and that's through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and our belief in Him as risen Lord.

That's black and white. We're all either right or wrong on that matter. There is no in betweens or maybes.

You got that right brother!!!

In the meantime ... doctrine ... can be so divisive. Ya know?

But it doesn't have to be. I think of it more as people use doctrine to divide.

by messiaen77 Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:50 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:
Adam wrote:
A: S6's post was regarding the New Jerusalem which will be on earth. Heaven is a different place.

You lost me bro.

Yeah, I don't believe we actually "go to heaven". Or at least that isn't our final destination. I don't think the narrative points to God taking us to his Kingdom far away, but rather God is bringing his Kingdom to earth. That's what I believe the New Jerusalem scene in Revelation represents.

Also, someone said this, but I don't know who. I think the arrival of God's Kingdom is a restoration of the pre-Fall state, since that was how God originally created us to live. I truly believe it is a "do over" of sorts.

by Deepfriar Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:01 pm

P.S.

I want to zoom through the universe and explore God's handiwork up close and I think that's what He made it so big for! Yep, I think we'll be able to do that!

by WildWorld Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:15 pm

ParaNormaN wrote:
d@v!d wrote:Oh come on guys! Y'all be screwing up a perfectly good opportunity here. Need I remind y'alls that Kerrick's away? Stop all this peaceful ecumenicism talk and start cutting each other down.
You are all noobs. Heaven is made of chocolate.

Milk or dark?

by Grindboy Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:46 pm

I have a lot more questions than answers.

But, in general, I think I agree with what S6 and M77 were getting at.

I think the attraction of heaven will be God himself and being in his manifest presence. I think that will give anything about our pets or clothing or marriage or sexuality or what have you a new understanding of the concept of irrelevant.

Of course I could be wrong, and either way I'm not criticizing the questions being asked.

by messiaen77 Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:05 pm

Right, I hope I'm not sounding dismissive. I think it is perfectly fine and normal to wonder these things.

by Guest Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:42 am

"Q: Is there free-will in heaven?
A: Absolutely"

So this raises an interesting question I've not considered before...couldn't another fall happen all over again? The angels had free will, 1/3 rebelled and fell. Humanity has free will, and fell. The odds, thus far, are 100% that at some point-given eternity is at hand, that at least a portion of Gods creation falls again.

by bjorn agin Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:39 am

RavenWolf wrote:What matters most to me is Jesus. And I think we can all here agree ... Jesus is what matters most!

Amen!

Revelation 21 (and the New Jerusalem) was already mentioned. One passage worth mentioning that I think speaks well to what it will be like emotionally:

"...Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” - Rev 21:3-4

Deepfriar wrote:I think heaven will be very beautiful, lots of colors. Life and joy everywhere. Throne of God, sea of glass, all that jazz. Lots of cool stuff.

Oh man! There's going to be jazz music?!? One of my least favorite forms of music. Ugh! Very Happy

by d@v!d Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:58 am

spitshockey81 wrote:"Q: Is there free-will in heaven?
A: Absolutely"

So this raises an interesting question I've not considered before...couldn't another fall happen all over again? The angels had free will, 1/3 rebelled and fell. Humanity has free will, and fell. The odds, thus far, are 100% that at some point-given eternity is at hand, that at least a portion of Gods creation falls again.

Yes, a very interesting question.

I've thought about that many times. I have no conclusive answer. But, consider this: We are fallen and then later redeemed. So, experientially, we know that rebellion doesn't work. Once we are in heaven, why would we ever think that so how try to become autonomous again would be of any benefit knowing all the suffering and misery it caused us during our life on Earth? The angels once fallen, never have the opportunity for redemption as we do. Personally, I'm not worried that I will ever fall again after this life.

by Deepfriar Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:43 am

We will know as we are known. We won't want to rebel against God.

by ThomasEversole Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:22 am

ParaNormaN wrote:You are all noobs. Heaven is made of peanut butter and dark chocolate.

I fixed that for you. ↑

d@v!d wrote:
spitshockey81 wrote:"Q: Is there free-will in heaven?
A: Absolutely"

So this raises an interesting question I've not considered before...couldn't another fall happen all over again? The angels had free will, 1/3 rebelled and fell. Humanity has free will, and fell. The odds, thus far, are 100% that at some point-given eternity is at hand, that at least a portion of Gods creation falls again.
Yes, a very interesting question.

I've thought about that many times. I have no conclusive answer. But, consider this: We are fallen and then later redeemed. So, experientially, we know that rebellion doesn't work. Once we are in heaven, why would we ever think that so how try to become autonomous again would be of any benefit knowing all the suffering and misery it caused us during our life on Earth? The angels once fallen, never have the opportunity for redemption as we do. Personally, I'm not worried that I will ever fall again after this life.

I wondered the same thing - thanks for the feedback guys!

I think free-will has many ingredients to make a recipe.
Lets say someone is extremely disturbed on this earth and wants to murder and cannibalize people. That person is free to think about that, free to glorify it, free to act on it, but NOT free from its consequences - therefore, not really free to act on it. Its almost paradoxical.

I think the fall from heaven obviously has to do with the fact that angels/demons are different from humans. We don't have the power to overthrow God on this planet, and I doubt we'll have that power in heaven. My wondering is with our new bodies, if we'll have new programming, absent of sin?

...or if what would be considered sin on earth may not be considered sin in heaven? (ie: if there's no marriages in heaven but there's sex...)

My opinion, it would go against heaven being an eternal paradise if we (humans) could eventually rebel, or think of rebelling.
______________________________

Here's another something to chew on.
Do you think heaven will have discipline?

I'm not talking about being reprimanded for something wrong - I'm talking about setting personal goals and self improvement.
On this earth, I go to the gym. I have a discipline regarding my physical fitness and I have goals I'm trying to reach or at least maintain. I have discipline regarding the skills I have for my job.

The thing is though, if we have new bodies/minds in heaven, are they just really good? ...or are they perfect?
Obviously, if they're perfect, there's no way we could improve them. If they're not perfect, do they just not age or die but physical/mental improvements could be made?

How does that work?

Makes no sense to have a gym in heaven if you're in perfect health.
Makes no sense to have books to read if you already know everything in them. (as I doubt we'll know everything)

Then again, I'm wondering if fishermen do something else in heaven or if fish are just happy to be caught and they couldn't possibly die? That's kind of blowing my mind there.
Sorry, I'm rambling now.

by Deepfriar Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:58 pm

Basically I believe we will be EXACTLY like God just without the title.

I don't think discipline will be a concept because I don't think laziness will exist.

I believe the bodies will be perfect, yes. No need for improvement.

I don't think there will be sin because our natures will be identical to God's (and actually they already are but our flesh compels us to lust).

I don't think we can possibly fathom what it will be like to be free of this flesh that encases us, and I think it will be wonderful. I believe creativity will be a driving force on the other side of eternity, and perhaps we will even be able to create as God does? We will see.

by srguenther Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:08 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:

2 Corinthians 12:2 (NIV)

"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows."

Obviously if a 3rd heaven is mentioned, there must be a 1st and 2nd...

If I remember correctly my dads lessons from long ago, you are in the first heaven (air around you), the second is the sky above you and the third is basically outer space....

by Candlemass Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:48 am

Are we talking about Heaven, where the dead in Christ go separated from the body, or the renewed Earth, where the resurrected Saints dwell for all eternity?

by Candlemass Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:55 am

by Hardcore Christian Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:50 pm

Just a non - theological comment passing through

I cant wait to be in heaven but I know I have a purpose here first

by messiaen77 Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:14 am

srguenther wrote:
ThomasEversole wrote:

2 Corinthians 12:2 (NIV)

"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows."

Obviously if a 3rd heaven is mentioned, there must be a 1st and 2nd...
If I remember correctly my dads lessons from long ago, you are in the first heaven (air around you), the second is the sky above you and the third is basically outer space....

Close.

1st heaven--the air and atmosphere around us.
2nd heaven--outer space
3rd heaven--the realm of God

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