The Nightmare

d@v!d wrote:
All that said, I don't think it is impossible that for some their experience may have spiritual origins.

The spiritual origins of sleep paralysis is what this thread is about.
...because that's what this The Nightmare documentary is about.

Discussions of acid trips and other brain tricks is pretty much derailing the thread.

ThomasEversole wrote:

d@v!d wrote:
All that said, I don't think it is impossible that for some their experience may have spiritual origins.

The spiritual origins of sleep paralysis is what this thread is about.
...because that's what this The Nightmare documentary is about.  

Discussions of acid trips and other brain tricks is pretty much derailing the thread.

Sorry I missed that because the trailer you posted never says anything about spiritual origins and you didn't make it clear that the discussion should be limited to discussing the presumption that this phenomena is only spiritual. It seemed a lot more open ended than that. But why limit the discussion so?

Well OK, I've made my case for a naturalistic explanation for this phenomena, I don't have much more to say on that point.

Here are some thoughts on the spiritual aspect.

I question why this would be a spiritual phenomena. You do realize that the enemy doesn't just do things for fun, right? He doesn't get his jollies from merely scaring people. He has a masterful game plan to take souls. His time is short and he must use it the best he can to keep people from repenting from their sins. How does the spiritual version of this phenomena work into his plan? I ask because it would seem that revealing the spiritual world in such a way to an unbeliever would be counter productive to keeping a soul from finding God, don't you think? If I were to experience seeing demons as an unbeliever, that would make me want to seek out God for protection.

I almost entirely agree with d@v!d here. I certainly don't deny the existence of demons, but this doesn't fit very well with what is recorded of them in Scripture. There, they always seek to spiritually deceive and/or physically harm those that they afflict, and rarely if ever manifest themselves as physically visible entities. Contrast that with these accounts of something physically manifesting to a fairly large number of people and not doing anything beyond scaring them, and I think a natural origin is much more likely in the vast majority of these experiences.

Where I differ slightly is that I'm not so quick to write it off entirely as something drug induced. I think there could be a poorly understand medical phenomenon capable of affecting even those who don't use hallucinogens. Disturbances of normal brain function like schizophrenia have been documented to cause all sorts of powerful hallucinations both visual and auditory, so it's certainly possible. Hopefully someone will clinically study this if they aren't already.

d@v!d wrote:

 Satan's work is achieved when he convinces us that God isn't all good, all that we need, and isn't truthful, but that we need terrestrial things to fulfill us and make us wise.

Truth Brother......Truth !

d@v!d wrote:

I question why this would be a spiritual phenomena. You do realize that the enemy doesn't just do things for fun, right? He doesn't get his jollies from merely scaring people. He has a masterful game plan to take souls. His time is short and he must use it the best he can to keep people from repenting from their sins. How does the spiritual version of this phenomena work into his plan? I ask because it would seem that revealing the spiritual world in such a way to an unbeliever would be counter productive to keeping a soul from finding God, don't you think? If I were to experience seeing demons as an unbeliever, that would make me want to seek out God for protection.

Good points. Also, I think satan really doesn't mind Christians getting into this kind of stuff because it can get our eyes off true spiritual warfare. Satan isn't beyond using a little slight of hand to get our focus off.

sentient 6 wrote:

d@v!d wrote:

I question why this would be a spiritual phenomena. You do realize that the enemy doesn't just do things for fun, right? He doesn't get his jollies from merely scaring people. He has a masterful game plan to take souls. His time is short and he must use it the best he can to keep people from repenting from their sins. How does the spiritual version of this phenomena work into his plan? I ask because it would seem that revealing the spiritual world in such a way to an unbeliever would be counter productive to keeping a soul from finding God, don't you think? If I were to experience seeing demons as an unbeliever, that would make me want to seek out God for protection.

Good points. Also, I think satan really doesn't mind Christians getting into this kind of stuff because it can get our eyes off true spiritual warfare. Satan isn't beyond using a little slight of hand to get our focus off.

So, do you think these could be spiritual manifestation for the broader purpose of propagation 'Christian ghostbusters' or a ruse in order to distract them from true spiritual warfare more than for the purpose of scaring people when they sleep?

I believe demons have emotions and personalities and can enjoy tormenting someone just to torment them. No big scheme there, just darkness being darkness. They hate us, mankind, because we are in the Father's image.

d@v!d wrote:Satan's work is achieved when he convinces us that God isn't all good, all that we need, and isn't truthful, but that we need terrestrial things to fulfill us and make us wise.

Spot-on.

I never put the effects of sleep paralysis into a spiritual context. I'm encountering ghosts and demons regularly  - - when it's dark and my brain is turning a towel into a grimace or the noise of my neighbours sound like a poltergeist.
And I believe that's exactly the same that happens during a sleep paralysis.
That's why I believe that documentaries like that are DANGEROUS because they put fear into people for no reason. I'm not saying that demonic encounters don't exist, but as long as there are other reasonable explanations I rather stick to those than trying to push it into the realm of the supernatural.

I will say that I believe that acid use can open the door to the demonic realm, I believe, w/little doubt I might add, that I was possessed on one of my trips...

Superjuice wrote:As a supernaturalist I hope this video sets people free from this type of demonic attack and opens eyes to the spiritual reality of the heavenly realms.

Perhaps a bit of a superstitionist and sensationalist as well...

Candlemass wrote:I will say that I believe that acid use can open the door to the demonic realm, I believe, w/little doubt I might add, that I was possessed on one of my trips...

So, an induced chemical imbalance or intoxication can open one up to perceiving and interacting with the spiritual realm?
If so, do you think that is a constant, as in that is always the case? Or is it sporadic? Do you think these experiences can ever come just from the mind, human imagination, brain power?

I think it's both and, I might add as a Catholic, I'm not as closed of to esoteric experiences as say a Calvinist would be, but I'm not quick to believe them all either...

Candlemass wrote:I think it's both and, I might add as a Catholic, I'm not as closed of to esoteric experiences as say a Calvinist would be, but I'm not quick to believe them all either...

Don't you think it's a fascinating idea that when the body is intoxicated that one could see the spiritual realm, as in I wonder how that works?

How does being Catholic do so? What teachings make you more open to these ideas?

Perhaps the spirit realm and the natural realm are not so exclusively separate.