Secular Metal Danger

It should be noted that there have been songs that may seem to be offensive, when in actuality theyre actually positive or at least neutral. For example, Tipper Gore thought Under the Blade was about violent sex, when it was actually about throat surgery, and there were people who thought Dont Fear the Reaper (about love lasting beyond death) and Suicide Solution (an anti-drinking song) were pro-suicide, which is obviously untrue (why any band would want to promote suicide is ridiculous, as it would mean substantially fewer record sales).

savage amusement wrote:

  no, I refer to them as old dead songs written by old dead people sung in old dead churches

.....savage amusement !......in your face....and back with a vengeance ! 

Wow.  Color me impressed......  I'm much appreciative of the civility in the discussion here, folks.....

Years ago, I had a strong conviction against listening to anything secular. Years later, I believed the opposite, like if I couldn't bring myself to stomach evil (lyrics), then my faith wasn't strong enough.

Now, I believe its to each their own. I certainly don't prefer lyrics to be against my faith, but if they're creative and powerful - its a lot like enjoying a roller coaster. Its very exciting, as long as I don't fall off and get hurt.

I totally understand someone not liking lyrics against their faith.

What I don't understand is people who will read a book about a creepy story in the woods, watch a TV show or movie about a creepy story in the woods, listen to a rock song about a creepy story out in the woods....

...but those same lyrics about a creepy story in the woods in (specifically) extreme metal, they'll recoil from it as if it held the hellfire to take their soul.

ThomasEversole wrote:
What I don't understand is people who will read a book about a creepy story in the woods, watch a TV show or movie about a creepy story in the woods, listen to a rock song about a creepy story out in the woods....

...but those same lyrics about a creepy story in the woods in (specifically) extreme metal, they'll recoil from it as if it held the hellfire to take their soul.

Very well said!

I also take lyrics on a song-by-song basis. If every song by a band is anti-religious, i avoid them, but if they have an equal number of neutral songs, i focus on them and just ignore the anti-religious stuff. Take Exodus for example. Dont care for all their anti-religion or hateful songs, but there is no problem with something like The Toxic Waltz (sadly, the newer stuff seems to aim for the former). The same can go for sexual lyrics. Warrant, for example, have songs like Cherry Pie, but they also have songs like Heaven, which is so innocent that nobody could find any problem with it. Heck, just look at the lyrics to the Van Halen song Jamie's Cryin. That said, i do try to stick with bands where the majority of the lyrics are positive and/or neutral.

WildWorld wrote:I also take lyrics on a song-by-song basis. If every song by a band is anti-religious, i avoid them, but if they have an equal number of neutral songs, i focus on them and just ignore the anti-religious stuff. Take Exodus for example. Dont care for all their anti-religion or hateful songs, but there is no problem with something like The Toxic Waltz (sadly, the newer stuff seems to aim for the former). The same can go for sexual lyrics. Warrant, for example, have songs like Cherry Pie, but they also have songs like Heaven, which is so innocent that nobody could find any problem with it. Heck, just look at the lyrics to the Van Halen song Jamie's Cryin. That said, i do try to stick with bands where the majority of the lyrics are positive and/or neutral.

What's wrong with 'Cherry Pie'?  

Metal's good for you.Hot dogs, mac, cheese...not so much.

Neal Morse Code wrote:Metal's good for you...hot dogs, not so much.

   

ThomasEversole wrote:What I don't understand is people who will read a book about a creepy story in the woods, watch a TV show or movie about a creepy story in the woods, listen to a rock song about a creepy story out in the woods....

...but those same lyrics about a creepy story in the woods in (specifically) extreme metal, they'll recoil from it as if it held the hellfire to take their soul.

Well...When people read a book about about a creepy story in the woods, or watch a TV show about a creepy story in the woods, or listen to a rock song about a creepy story out in the woods....

...they usually don't have to put up with the racket of someone screaming/yelling/growling loudly at them as if they did hold the hellfire to take their soul to hell.

Its fine if you don't care for it or are afraid of it, but there's no need to refer to music that people like here as a racket because you don't understand it.

Mortal wrote:

ThomasEversole wrote:What I don't understand is people who will read a book about a creepy story in the woods, watch a TV show or movie about a creepy story in the woods, listen to a rock song about a creepy story out in the woods....

...but those same lyrics about a creepy story in the woods in (specifically) extreme metal, they'll recoil from it as if it held the hellfire to take their soul.

Well...When people read a book about about a creepy story in the woods, or watch a TV show about a creepy story in the woods, or listen to a rock song about a creepy story out in the woods....

...they usually don't have to put up with the racket of someone screaming/yelling/growling loudly at them as if they did hold the hellfire to take their soul to hell.

I've watched plenty of movies about creepy stories in the woods, and i've heard screaming in those films that some metal bands would sell their amps for!

ThomasEversole wrote:Its fine if you don't care for it or are afraid of it, but there's no need to refer to music that people like here as a racket because you don't understand it.

I'm not afraid of it....Haha!

And alot of people don't care for it because it is a racket to them.

WildWorld wrote:I've watched plenty of movies about creepy stories in the woods, and i've heard screaming in those films that some metal bands would sell their amps for!

That's cool, but that's really beside the point.

exo wrote:Wow.  Color me impressed......  I'm much appreciative of the civility in the discussion here, folks.....

The banhammer thinks this is a clean thread now!!!!!

Start the Bible throwing

I figured I would say a few things here. The issue of secular music - more specifically rock and metal  - will never be settled in this forum. There are many people from all walks of life from various countries with different views. With that said, many people here in Canada tend to be less polarized and you have your right (conservatives), your left (liberals), the dead center and those that swing a little either way. From my impressions of the US and some other countries, some people's views seem to be more polarized as only left or right and less in between, especially when it comes to 4 areas: politics, religion, music and sports. Unless you are talking about hockey, then you are polarized here in Canada in many cases as the Montreal Canadians or Toronto Maple Leafs club.

When it comes to music, the majority of my music collection, 80 to 90% has always been Christian oriented. Not Christian oriented means secular and having nothing to do with Christianity. Secular doesn't necessarily mean bad either. Likewise, I think the word Christian has been applied to bands, songs, etc when it shouldn't have.

What I have noticed over the past 30 years since I have been into the heavier side of rock music are a few trends:

1. Up until the past 15 to 20 years, Christian and secular music were separate except for if a band were signed to a secular label or if a band hired a non-Christian session musician or producer to help with an album. However, the 2 are not as separate as one might think. Many non-Christians session musicians are hired on Christian albums and many Christian session musicians are hired on non-Christian albums.

2. What I find interesting is after some Christian bands break up, at some point afterwards up many members are no longer Christians. I am not only referring to Roger Martinez of Vengeance but other artists. Also, In secular metal, we see the opposite trend. When an artist is in a band or after they leave a band have become Christians like Iron Maiden, WASP, Megadeth, etc.

3. I take the view that not all Christian music is good and not all secular music is bad. Pastor Bob has said that many Christian artists has done some things that even he was surprised at. I have read that many bands get signed to Christian labels and aren't Christian at all where they were not good enough to get signed to a secular label. They would play the Christian card for a while.

4. Some of us have bashed CCM music for not mentioning Christ in their lyrics and having a watered down message. Many rock and metal artists don't mention Christ very much on some of their albums as well.

For me, it depends on the band or the album. It is a matters of regulation. The same applies to other areas of our lives like food, dress, family, etc. The Bible has things that are off limits and other things that are a grey area. There are many secular rock and metal songs that I can say that is a great song and there are others I cannot say that. What I find about this forum is many of the Christians in this forum will jump all over you the minute you critize them about listening to a band that sings about sex and/or Satanism. The way I see it is if you are professing to be a Christian and are talking in a forum where there are Christians and you mentioned you like a certain band, then expect to get critized. Personally, I think a Christian should not be listening to certain bands anyway. Why invest your hard earned money in crap when you could be spending/giving your money to spread the gospel, buying Christian music, investing in gold or lucrative mutual finds, or paying off some debt.

Neal Morse Code, I think you misunderstood me. Perhaps I should rephrase the last paragraph and just say this in the first place:
It depends on the band as to what is appropriate for a Christian to listen to. The Bible has things that are off limits and other things that are a grey area. There are many secular rock and metal songs that I can say that is a great song and there are others I cannot say that. What I find about this forum is many of the Christians in this forum will get upset when you critize them about listening to a band that sings about sex and/or Satanism.

You were doing well IMO until your final paragraph.  Then you started sounding like the mindset Steve Taylor exposes in "Guilty by Association," "getting your milk from a Christian cow." Boats float differently.  Different strokes for different folks.  Opinions are like bum-holes, everyone's got one.

The "Getting your milk from a Christian cow" thing caught my attention.

It's kinda ironic that some folks get their milk from "Christian" music, and then act as if it is some kind of strong meat.

If music is your sole--or primary--source of spiritual nourishment, you have bigger issues.

messiaen77 wrote:If music is your sole--or primary--source of spiritual nourishment, you have bigger issues.

Agreed 100%

Maybe we should all just listen to non-violent music. Like this here Johnny Cash ditty:

Neal Morse Code wrote:  Different strokes for different folks.  

Here is a general principle that I feel applies to every aspect of our lives. Christian hearts and minds should not be reflecting the same mindset that the world does. Christians have something that other people don't have - the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Plus, we have the authority of Gods Word. Together, they shape and mold our hearts and attitudes. When the scriptures speaks, the Holy Spirit speaks. When the scriptures lead, the Holy Spirit leads.

That said, do you feel the Holy Spirit leads two Christians to feel opposite in regards to the same things ? In regards to this topic particularly, would God lead one Christian to feel that songs about sex, violence, rebellion, etc are ok for them ? While leading another, that these types of songs are contrary to a Christian  seeking holiness ?

....this is one question a think about when someone says " what might be right for one Christian may not be right for another."

That said, do you feel the Holy Spirit leads two Christians to feel opposite in regards to the same things ? In regards to this topic particularly, would God lead one Christian to feel that songs about sex, violence, rebellion, etc are ok for them ? While leading another, that these types of songs are contrary to a Christian  seeking holiness ?

Great question 

This may be another question that no one can agree on.

Why do I say that?

I say that because, first of all, those two Christians...that you used in your question...would have to agree on the Holy Spirit.

If they can't agree on WHO the Holy Spirit is, then they're ALWAYS going to be constantly bickering over insignificant details.