Are there any Christian bands/songs you avoid because of lyrics?

Raegoul wrote:

Pethead wrote:If someone could tell me how many good works I need and exactly how perfect they need to be and how often I need to do them and how exactly Christ remains Savior in this scheme, that would be great.

Every post on CMR counts towards salvation.

Sweet, I’m basically canonized then.

That is not what I said. I did not say believers ONLY have the desire to do good but no power to overcome temptation. God does give Christians the power to overcome temptation. For any temptation a Christian experiences, there will always be a means of escape. However, sometimes even believers will commit a sin, because they fail to take the escape route God has provided for them. We see this throughout the Bible, where even the apostles themselves sin. Does this mean they are not truly saved? Let me ask you, do you ever sin? Are you completely perfect before God?

Pethead wrote:

Friday13th wrote:

Pethead wrote:So you can’t answer it and I can’t have assurance. Got it.

The standard of the Lord is perfection. We ain’t meeting it.

Paul literally says the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit ans not according to the flesh (Romans 8:4). Not sure where you think the Bible contradicts itself and says we can’t fulfill God’s righteous requirements. 

If you walk in darkness but claim to have assurance of knoeing Christ, John says you lie and tge truth is not in you. Only if you walk in the light as He is in the light, then you have fellowship and the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all sin (1 John 1:6-7). That’s the only assurance the Bible gives. “By this the children of God and the child of the devil are manifest, anyone who does not do righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.” - 1 John 3:10

Still not answering my question. How perfect must my obedience be before I’m saved from damnation?

I answered, Pethead, and my answer was to say your question was not logical. It’s like asking what moment a clean shaven man becomes a bearded man, or how many donuts must one eat before it is gluttony.

There is nothing that violates the law of logic in my question, but I’ll let it go.

Seth asked this, as well, but how is Christ savior in this understanding? What does he save us from? What does his death accomplish?

seth wrote:That is not what I said. I did not say believers ONLY have the desire to do good but no power to overcome temptation. God does give Christians the power to overcome temptation. For any temptation a Christian experiences, there will always be a means of escape. However, sometimes even believers will commit a sin, because they fail to take the escape route God has provided for them. We see this throughout the Bible, where even the apostles themselves sin. Does this mean they are not truly saved? Let me ask you, do you ever sin? Are you completely perfect before God?

If we have the ability to not sin, then no one has to fail to take the escape route. We actually have very few instances of the Apostles sinning. When Peter sinned by being a hypocrite and not eating with Gentile believers, Paul tells us in Galatians that Peter “stood condemned.” I don’t teach once saved always saved, nor did any Christian before Calvin. If a Christian falls into sin, he must return to the light as 1 John 1 says to be cleansed of the sin, and as James 5:20 says, the one who brings back a erring brother saves his soul and covers a multitude of sins.

To be fair, many who disagree with you would still affirm the possibility of apostasy for a believer. I’d say that’s a different issue (although related).

Pethead wrote:Seth asked this, as well, but how is Christ savior in this understanding? What does he save us from? What does his death accomplish?

Jesus died for our sins and to save us from the power of sin and death, which requires a reborn spirit and new nature. We are grafted into Christ at initial salvation, and if we abide in Christ, we have life. Apart from him we can do nothing, and failure to abide in His goodness causes us to be cut off as John teaches in John 15 and Paul teaches in Romans 11.

Friday13th wrote:

seth wrote:That is not what I said. I did not say believers ONLY have the desire to do good but no power to overcome temptation. God does give Christians the power to overcome temptation. For any temptation a Christian experiences, there will always be a means of escape. However, sometimes even believers will commit a sin, because they fail to take the escape route God has provided for them. We see this throughout the Bible, where even the apostles themselves sin. Does this mean they are not truly saved? Let me ask you, do you ever sin? Are you completely perfect before God?

If we have the ability to not sin, then no one has to fail to take the escape route. We actually have very few instances of the Apostles sinning. When Peter sinned by being a hypocrite and not eating with Gentile believers, Paul tells us in Galatians that Peter “stood condemned.” I don’t teach once saved always saved, nor did any Christian before Calvin. If a Christian falls into sin, he must return to the light as 1 John 1 says to be cleansed of the sin, and as James 5:20 says, the one who brings back a erring brother saves his soul and covers a multitude of sins.

You are right no one HAS TO fall into temptation, we do have the ability to resist, but sometimes we fail nonetheless. The NKJV and KJV translate “stood condemned” as “he was to be blamed” referring to Peter. Looking into the original meaning, this seems to indicate that Peter was in the wrong in this situation, not that he would have been condemned to hell had he died at that point.

And it is true we are to walk in the light of Jesus Christ, and whoever does not abide in Him is not saved. But once again, a life abiding in Christ is the mark of one who has true faith in Christ. The thing that saves such a person is not the fact that he was good enough to get to Heaven, but the fact that Jesus took the punishment for that person’s sin upon Himself when He died

I’m gonna drop out of the discussion simply because 1. I don’t think we’re getting anywhere and 2. I really don’t like online debates. I actually intended to stay out of this one.

Yeah and the original purpose of this thread has been completely derailed. Partially my fault, but I find it hard not to say something when it comes to important theological issues

seth wrote:And it is true we are to walk in the light of Jesus Christ, and whoever does not abide in Him is not saved. But once again, a life abiding in Christ is the mark of one who has true faith in Christ. The thing that saves such a person is not the fact that he was good enough to get to Heaven, but the fact that Jesus took the punishment for that person’s sin upon Himself when He died

But that’s precisely the false dichotomy the Scriptures refute and which makes “Absolution Day” fictitious. As I’ve shown, Paul literally says the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4). Paul says doing good has a causal relation to inheriting eternal life just as sowing a seed causes a plant to bear fruit (Galatians 6:7-10). There is not one passage in Scripture that says the only thing that counts on final judgment day is whether we received the blood of Christ. Hebrews 10:26-31 says one who received the blood of Christ, but then goes into willful sin, tramples the blood and makes it no effect anymore. And Jesus promises He will judge us by our works (Matthew 16:27; John 5:28-29; Revelation 22:12-14). It’s irrefutably true that the outcome-determinative factor on Final Judgment Day is not whether Christ was applied to us at any point in time, but whether we persevered in good works, just as Paul and the NT teaches.

So uh…how ‘bout them cowboys?

Friday13th wrote:It’s irrefutably true that the outcome-determinative factor on Final Judgment Day is not whether Christ was applied to us.

Matthew 10:14.

See you on judgment day.

nocturnaliridescence wrote:

Friday13th wrote:It’s irrefutably true that the outcome-determinative factor on Final Judgment Day is not whether Christ was applied to us.

Matthew 10:14.

See you on judgment day.

Meaning, in context of what I was saying, one can have Christ’s blood applied but then fall away for willfully sinning failing to abide in Christ as John 15, Romans 11, Hebrews 10:26-31 teach. Of course one needs to first accept Christ and receive Christ’s blood as a necessary precondition to being righteous. No one will be saved who does not have this. But that one was once saved is not what Jesus will judge on Final Judgment Day.

That Theandric song is a remake of a sonnet written in the early 1800's with the name Ozymandias being the greek word for Pharaoh. I dont think it has anything to do with Mary or Catholicism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias

Wow.  A lot has happened in this thread since I logged in last.

I have no comment on Catholicism and frankly all of that is better left in the Theology Realm.

StevenCressler, Bride's Incorruptible album is the one where Dale's universalism really stands out in the lyrics.

Stryper's GDE is NOT swearing, I know that.  It puts that phrase in my head though and I don't want to think it where it becomes obscenity.  Yes, it might be the catchiest song Stryper has ever written, that's exactly why it would get in my head so easily.  I am not in any way judging Fundy or anyone else who can enjoy the song without this problem.

What is the context of that Virgin Black song.  I looked it up and yes, out of any context that is terrible.  Is it part of a larger concept album, is it sung in character, or are they trying to go for something that I'm missing?  Have they ever addressed it in an interview?

Pethead wrote:So you can’t answer it and I can’t have assurance. Got it.

The standard of the Lord is perfection. We ain’t meeting it.

Or as I put it

Long ago, when we were first created
The most powerful of angels rebelled
He was defeated and tossed out of heaven
And God made a place for him that we call hell
God’s people rebelled
Ruining the perfect Earth
God didn’t want to send us to hell
But it’s what we all deserve

God isn’t judging our goodness
Based on what we believe
People say it isn’t fair
How God chooses who enters heaven
And who burns
If you want it to be fair, then
I guess we’re all dead
‘Cause you know where we’re all heading

They don’t understand
They don’t see God’s hand
We’re all falling down
He’s here to help us out
The choice is completely yours

Everyone deserves hell
But that’s not what’s in God’s heart
God gave us all a gift so we can have a brand new start
We’re all heading for destruction
In that fiery lake
But the free gift of salvation is here for you to take
The choice is yours to make

It’s not about if you deserve to go to heaven
There’s no narcissistic criteria when it comes to God
It’s a helping hand to pull you out
Of this pit you’re falling in
A pit that you built yourself

Everyone deserves hell
But that’s not what’s in God’s heart
God gave us all a gift so we can have a brand new start
We’re all heading for destruction
In that fiery lake
But the free gift of salvation is here for you to take
The choice is yours to make

eatbugs wrote:Wow.  A lot has happened in this thread since I logged in last.

I have no comment on Catholicism and frankly all of that is better left in the Theology Realm.

StevenCressler, Bride's Incorruptible album is the one where Dale's universalism really stands out in the lyrics.

Stryper's GDE is NOT swearing, I know that.  It puts that phrase in my head though and I don't want to think it where it becomes obscenity.  Yes, it might be the catchiest song Stryper has ever written, that's exactly why it would get in my head so easily.  I am not in any way judging Fundy or anyone else who can enjoy the song without this problem.

What is the context of that Virgin Black song.  I looked it up and yes, out of any context that is terrible.  Is it part of a larger concept album, is it sung in character, or are they trying to go for something that I'm missing?  Have they ever addressed it in an interview?

okay, thanks! Yeah, I agree with literally everything you said here that I didn't already know

eatbugs wrote:Wow.  A lot has happened in this thread since I logged in last.

I have no comment on Catholicism and frankly all of that is better left in the Theology Realm.

StevenCressler, Bride's Incorruptible album is the one where Dale's universalism really stands out in the lyrics.

Stryper's GDE is NOT swearing, I know that.  It puts that phrase in my head though and I don't want to think it where it becomes obscenity.  Yes, it might be the catchiest song Stryper has ever written, that's exactly why it would get in my head so easily.  I am not in any way judging Fundy or anyone else who can enjoy the song without this problem.

What is the context of that Virgin Black song.  I looked it up and yes, out of any context that is terrible.  Is it part of a larger concept album, is it sung in character, or are they trying to go for something that I'm missing?  Have they ever addressed it in an interview?

I think VB claims the “Jesus” referred to in the song is metaphorical, referring to someone’s faith they are falling away from. But regardless of context, I still don’t think it’s appropriate to use that kind of imagery no matter what. Because it puts an image in the mind of the listener that no one should ever have in their mind

^There's an interview in which VB explains it in detail.  IIRC the "message" they're trying to convey is fine, but yeah the execution leaves much to be desired...

I tried to find the interview but didn't have any luck.  I'll look more when I've got more time.

nocturnaliridescence wrote:

Friday13th wrote:It’s irrefutably true that the outcome-determinative factor on Final Judgment Day is not whether Christ was applied to us.

Matthew 10:14.

See you on judgment day.

Amen

seth wrote:

eatbugs wrote:Wow.  A lot has happened in this thread since I logged in last.

I have no comment on Catholicism and frankly all of that is better left in the Theology Realm.

StevenCressler, Bride's Incorruptible album is the one where Dale's universalism really stands out in the lyrics.

Stryper's GDE is NOT swearing, I know that.  It puts that phrase in my head though and I don't want to think it where it becomes obscenity.  Yes, it might be the catchiest song Stryper has ever written, that's exactly why it would get in my head so easily.  I am not in any way judging Fundy or anyone else who can enjoy the song without this problem.

What is the context of that Virgin Black song.  I looked it up and yes, out of any context that is terrible.  Is it part of a larger concept album, is it sung in character, or are they trying to go for something that I'm missing?  Have they ever addressed it in an interview?

I think VB claims the “Jesus” referred to in the song is metaphorical, referring to someone’s faith they are falling away from. But regardless of context, I still don’t think it’s appropriate to use that kind of imagery no matter what. Because it puts an image in the mind of the listener that no one should ever have in their mind

Interesting observation.   I have had VB in my catalog for years, but have never listened to them.  Maybe this is a reason why.

ShotGunderson wrote:So uh…how ‘bout them cowboys?

Mediocre.  If they make the postseason, they'll be one and done.