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God's promises???

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God's promises??? Empty God's promises???

Post by Rockrz Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:55 pm

So what do people do when God's Word promises things but they don't seem to get those promises for themselves?

I've seen a lot of people who are cherry pickers (don't believe the whole counsel of God) and discount legitimate promises given in the Bible just because they cannot obtain them in their life.  Or, because others who claim to be Christians get all freaky deeky with certain promises and run in to the ditch rather than staying on the stright and narrow

I most cases, I've notice that a lot of these folks are in to the Lord for what the Lord can give them rather than submitting their lives to the Lord and dying to self.  And, it's always sad that we cannot talk about the Bible without people getting all mad.  I've learned that if someone wants to reject certain promises, that's alright with me cause it's not me that'll have to answer to the Lord for it - so I'd just say my piece and get out.  No sense in arguing about this stuff.

It's always funny (not really in a good way) to talk about specific promises and then watch people explain them away as thought the Lord either lied about it, or failed to control what went in to His Word Arrow
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Post by Soldier777 Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:00 pm

What I find about God's promises is sometimes he give us something we don't want. Sometimes people refer to promises as something positive from a human view point which some relate to a prosperity gospel which I don't believe in and not a fan of.

When you consider when Christ was on earth he said if you believe in me you will have an abundant life. When you consider Paul, he was shipwrecked, beatened, imprisoned and eventually beheaded. So he had full life that wasn't boring. Some people think an abundant life means good things but the trials, temptations, hurts, struggles, etc was also promised too. Christ also said to rest in him where he is our sabbath and he will provide all of our needs.


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Post by Rockrz Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:53 pm

Actually, the Lord promised Paul a boat load of trouble (it says the Lord showed him what he would suffer) because of a specific calling upon his life and Paul knew about it ahead of time.

Sure we all have trials as the devil is seeking to choke the Word of God out of us (Mark 4:13-21) so we become unfruitful and get cut off and thrown in the fire as Jesus said happens to those who bare no fruit in John 15

But, all this does not mean God is not a good Father Who desires good things for His children.  The problem is we reap what we sow and when we sow to the flesh we reap corruption spoken of in Galatians 6:7,8 (2 Peter 1:4 is related)

We are even told in 1 Timothy 2:2 to pray for those in authority that we may live a quiet and a peaceable life in all godliness and honesty so if this was not the Lord's will He would not have pout these instructions in His Word.

When we quit walking after the Spirit being in agreement with God and get off in to the flesh and become lovers of this world... we make ourselves enemies of God (1 John 2:15) having become rebellious.

Don't know bout everyone else but I went down that road after having been born again at 19, and found satan was playing me like a cheap guitar (all his chords suck!) leading me away from the Lord back in to walking after the flesh and it wasn't NO fun at all because the Lord allowed me to reap some of that corruption.

I'm blessed to have come back cause many do not!
God is good!
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Post by Black Rider Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:55 pm

You mean promises like, "In this world you will have trouble"? Or, "if they hated me they will hate you also"? i'm guessing Christians in places like China read the Bible very differently then we do.
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Post by TZ75 Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:19 pm

Did someone mention Trouble! I love that band!
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Post by Grindboy Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:46 pm

Rockrz wrote:So what do people do when God's Word promises things but they don't seem to get those promises for themselves?

I've seen a lot of people who are cherry pickers (don't believe the whole counsel of God) and discount legitimate promises given in the Bible just because they cannot obtain them in their life.  Or, because others who claim to be Christians get all freaky deeky with certain promises and run in to the ditch rather than staying on the stright and narrow

I most cases, I've notice that a lot of these folks are in to the Lord for what the Lord can give them rather than submitting their lives to the Lord and dying to self.  And, it's always sad that we cannot talk about the Bible without people getting all mad.  I've learned that if someone wants to reject certain promises, that's alright with me cause it's not me that'll have to answer to the Lord for it - so I'd just say my piece and get out.  No sense in arguing about this stuff.

It's always funny (not really in a good way) to talk about specific promises and then watch people explain them away as thought the Lord either lied about it, or failed to control what went in to His Word Arrow

Do you have examples other than "that we may live quiet and peaceable lives?"  I don't at all take that to be any kind of promise, nor do I believe (or believe that it's Scriptural) to say that if somebody does not have a quiet and peaceable life that they're necessarily fleshly rebellious enemies of God.  I recall a well known preacher reading through a section of OT prophetic Scripture where God is expressing his love for Israel, and the preacher says "sometimes I like to take out Israel and replace it with my own name," and re-read the section with his name rather than Israel.  Of course I think that's wholly illegitimate number one, and number two of course there was no mention or indication of doing the same with a section of OT prophetic Scripture where God is expressing his anger (which also would have been wholly illegitimate, IMO).  Do you mean things like that?  I tend to find many fewer "promises" in Scripture than some do, but I think don't think we properly honor Scripture by saying things that were never intended.  But I don't know how to really respond to your question, because I don't know what you really have in mind.  Maybe we even agree!  Or maybe I'm a cherry picker who doesn't believe the whole counsel of God and explains things away as though the Lord lied.  I can't tell yet.  (related note -- do you see that you kind of sandwiched your comment about how it's sad we can't talk about the Bible without people getting all mad with mocking statements on either side?)

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Post by Constantine Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:41 pm

God has promised that He would be with me through every trial, sickness, and problem.  
And He has.  
Sometimes I might not sense Him there for long periods of time, but eventually His presence becomes more evident.

He never promised that I would not go through these painful events.  
And some have been horrific.

Many of my past and current circumstance are not ones I would ever have chosen, but He also promises that they will all be used to shape me into the image of Christ, rather than to fulfill all of my dreams.

Plus I get to be with Him in heaven.  
And no more pain or suffering.

I'll definitely be gaining way more than I am losing. 
 It doesn't always feel like that though, I will still complain.

...Which is fine, because He also promises to listen. Wink
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Post by BaleMaster Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:14 pm

Great post.
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Post by alldatndensum Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:31 pm

I believe that all of God's promises in the Word are true.  I also believe that we need to be careful not to cherry-pick them to apply to our situations.  Some promises in the Bible were written to particular people and should not be applied to every day life.  Of course, promises made by Jesus and in the letters of the Apostles I feel stand for all believers.
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Post by Black Rider Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:58 am

Very good post Constantine.
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Post by L8T Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:52 pm

This is a nice thread.
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Post by Staybrite Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:32 pm

Black Rider wrote:Very good post Constantine.

Agreed!
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Post by Staybrite Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:32 pm

alldatndensum wrote:I believe that all of God's promises in the Word are true.  I also believe that we need to be careful not to cherry-pick them to apply to our situations.  Some promises in the Bible were written to particular people and should not be applied to every day life.  Of course, promises made by Jesus and in the letters of the Apostles I feel stand for all believers.

Also agree.
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Post by Rockrz Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:58 pm

Do you have examples other than "that we may live quiet and peaceable lives?"

Yes, try Psalms 91 on for size.

Sure we will have problems.  So what?  Those are opportunities to overcome and the Lord is all about blowing the devil away.

Psalms 91 applies to he who walks in the secret place of the Most High which under the New Testament is abiding in Christ, walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh, putting off the old man and putting on the new man which is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Those are all scripture references that can be found using most any search engine.

I recommend https://www.DuckDuckGO.com
(they don't track yer stuff man!)


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Post by Rockrz Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:09 am

I recall a well known preacher reading through a section of OT prophetic Scripture where God is expressing his love for Israel, and the preacher says "sometimes I like to take out Israel and replace it with my own name," and re-read the section with his name rather than Israel.  Of course I think that's wholly illegitimate

Does God love Jesus Christ (His Word) as much as He does Israel?
Are we not "IN CHRIST"?

Galatians 3:29
And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Would you consider this verse to be true for us?

Hebrews 8:6
But now has He obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also He is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

What about this one?

Ain't God's Word fun? Very Happy
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Post by Grindboy Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:26 pm

I think taking poetic portions of Scripture (Psalm 91 in this case) to be "promises" is an excellent example of what leads people to distrust Scripture.  The Psalms are, of course, wonderful, and millions or perhaps billions of people over history have found great truth, strength, comfort and encouragement through them, as people expressed their experiences, feelings, emotions, in verse to God. 

But if Psalm 91 "promises" physical safety, rescue, and long life to those who "dwell in the shelter," then God must indeed be a liar.  As it would happen, I read this morning of Stephen being stoned in Acts 7.  Did the "promises" not apply to him somehow?  Was he not living right?  How about those written of in Hebrews 11:35-40 who are specifically commended for their faith, but were stoned or sawed in half?  Virtually all of the apostles who were martyred?  And the innumerable around the globe who are persecuted and martyred up to and including the current day for following Jesus?  The many Psalms of lament, where people cry out in their affliction -- is the Bible chock-crazy full of contradictions, as many critics claim?

Of course not.  Psalm 91 is glorious!  But it's a Psalm and needs to be understood for what it is.  I think it's generally very well meaning when people (IMO, of course) push pieces of Scripture past it's intended meaning, but I think it leads to confusion, disappointment, and distrust of God and Scripture when reality is that we're still living in the sinful fallen world where things often don't go as we would prefer.

Somewhat related and perhaps more clear example -- I see this happen a lot with Proverbs as well.  It's literally called the book of Proverbs, and people get really confused when they don't hold 100% true 100% of the time.  It's because they're proverbs!  "Train up a child in the way of he should go, and when his is old he will not turn from it."  Perhaps written by Solomon himself, who had pretty mixed success with fatherhood.  It doesn't mean the proverb isn't true as a proverb -- of course it is -- but it's a proverb, not a promise, and needs to be understood as such. 

I'm not at all sure what you're asking about with the verses of Galatians and Hebrews.  I'm sure you know this and I don't want to sound like I'm talking down to you, but both of those books are explicitly dealing with the transition from the old covenant of the OT Law to the NT way of faith in Jesus.

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Post by oldschooldoom Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:35 pm

When I met my wife, her license plate frame said GODS PROMISES ARE FOREVER
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Post by Rockrz Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:13 pm

No, go read Psalms 91 again... it's definitely contains promises for those walking close to the Lord as the Lord prescribes that we should be in His Word.

satan would absolutely love for people to start thinking that God's promises are nothing more that poetry.  They teach that garbage in most seminaries and bible colleges cause they've been corrupted by satan.

These promises are not automatic... they are in fact conditional, just like God's blessings for Israel were dependent upon them actually walking with the Lord and not walking in opposition to Him which is rebellion.  The same is true for us today, if we turn our backs on the Lord, we are being rebellious and He does not bless rebellion.  Ask 'ol slewfoot how rebellion worked out for him.

One of the primary reasons why some people in the Bible went ahead and died can be found in the Book of Hebrews (around about chapter 11) where it says some received not deliverance so that they could receive a better resurrection.  They wanted to leave Club Earth and took the opportunity of facing danger to go ahead and go Home to be with the Lord.  I can't say I blame them one bit.

So, I see your mention of Stephen being stoned in Acts 7... I'll counter your argument with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the Book of Daniel who told the king as they were being put into the fiery furnace, we shall not bow and we shall not burn!

Maybe Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were living more holy with the Lord than Stephen?  NO, we have no record of Stephen or any of the rest of them that died early calling out to the Lord for deliverance.  There's other examples in scripture of God's people facing sure death and yet God prevented them from being killed by personally doing something to protect them.

And really, all this is a mute point because... we are not called to follow Stephen or Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego or any other personality in the Bible other than Jesus Christ.

Jesus specifically said that unless He laid down His life, they could not kill Him and this was because He walk WITH God, in absolute agreement with the Father... we would do well to focus on Jesus and do what He did in the face of evil.

Back to Psalms 91... Jesus walked in the secret place of the Most High and God was with Him in trouble, delivered Him because He did no rebellion.

So, for those that think Psalms 91 is nothing more than the Lord blabbing some poetry... the devil just talked you out of a major, major promise the Lord has in store for those that abide in Christ (see John 15)
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Post by Rockrz Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:22 pm

I see you are confused by the promises the Lord gave to Solomon to write down because Solomon backslide and never came back to the Lord.

That does not mean what was written was not inspired by the Living God and it was not His Living Word.  Solomon didn't just sit around dreaming stuff up to write down. no the Lord gave him that information as it is God's inspired Word.

Those promises and wisdom is real, and satan seeks to get people to look at it in the way you are describing so the devil can keep the door open in people's lives to kill, steal, and to destroy and Jesus said that nutjob came to do in John 10:10

So, good luck with blowing off Proverbs as being cute sayings that are meaningless and nothing more than filler in a book!

This is very, very unfortunate viewpoint for you to take... but hey, it's yo life and this is between you, the Lord, and the devil.
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Post by Markus1987 Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:02 pm

There's a lot of promises that He has given. Number one for me is that, if I accept Jesus as my Saviour,  He has promised me eternal life in Heaven.
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Post by Rockrz Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:12 pm

Unless... you don't abide in Jesus

Jesus said in John 15 that those thjat do not abide in Him are cut off and thrown in to the fire.

The purpose of our existence is to be conformed (be like) Jesus and He walked with the Father, remaining in agreement with Him.

This is what we are called to... and some say we can turn away from the Lord, live in sin, and still go to Heaven.

This is like what satan told Adam and Eve... that there was no consequences to disobeying God - he's still pitching that same deception today by telling people God's warnings can be ignored cause once saved always saved.

This has caused many a Christian to start off right, but backslide and once again become a child of disobedience.

Lot's of warnings about this including in the New Testament but the top warning comes from Jesus Himself in John 15 which of course most of the modern translations water down to make it sounds like Jesus didn't say what He said cause... they been corrupted by satan, you know Dio's buddy
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Post by Grindboy Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:16 pm

It seems that we're going to disagree on some things here. 

For the OP saying that it's sad that we cannot talk about the Bible without people getting all mad, you've not just disagreed (fine, obviously), but you're misrepresenting and insulting my positions. 

Seems like troll behavior, honestly.

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Post by Rockrz Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:20 pm

That's too bad you feel "insulted" and no I did not misrepresent the idea that clearly stated promises are not actually promises.
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Post by Guest Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:03 am

alldatndensum wrote:I believe that all of God's promises in the Word are true.  I also believe that we need to be careful not to cherry-pick them to apply to our situations.  Some promises in the Bible were written to particular people and should not be applied to every day life.  Of course, promises made by Jesus and in the letters of the Apostles I feel stand for all believers.

Agreed!  Id also add that its in God's timing not our own, alot of Christians have a timetable on when he delivers some of his promises. Whether it be through his word or through something he may have revealed during prayer, etc.

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