Christian metal no longer confronts sin

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Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by New Creation on Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:49 pm

Christian metal no longer confronts sin (for the most part), and when they do, they only pick issues that the world also considers sin. That way, there is no controversy and they can keep playing and not make enemies.

While watching "Pissed Off", one of the new songs from Fit For a King, I noticed that they are singin' and screamin' about war and it's victims. In and of itself, not a bad subject. But I notice they stop short of which war they are referring to. When they do this, they lead the listener to believe that all war is bad, and all war is not bad. (See "The Bible" and the reference to "The Book of the Wars of the Lord".)

Referencing war, abuse, and slavery (as For Today did in their song "Fight the Silence") is good, but to leave out the other major issues like child killing in the womb, homosexuality, gambling, addiction, etc. we are skirting the real issue, and that is trying to be relevant to the world. I see very few bands these days even try to preach Christ (Wolves at the Gate preach boldly).

I'm not saying that every band has to be a ministry band, but if they cross that line to address sin, you'll find that they only address sin that the world also feels is wrong. This way they sound awesome to the world and somehow still feel good about themselves. Remember the debacle For Today found themselves in when one of their members confronted homosexuals? They nearly lost everything during that battle and Mattie tried to speak it away. I doubt we'll see such a battle again.

Gone are the days of Sacred Warrior, Holy Soldier, Steve Taylor, and others openly confronting sin in their lyrics.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Rich7198 on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:01 pm

I agree.

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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Hardcore Christian on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:09 pm

New Creation wrote:Gone are the days of Sacred Warrior, Holy Soldier, Steve Taylor, and others openly confronting sin in their lyrics.
I agree, but I did enjoy FFAK's new song and will be looking forward to hearing the rest of the album.

Most modern bands are that way, I agree, its disappointing
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by d@v!d on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:11 pm

New Creation wrote:Christian metal no longer confronts sin (for the most part), and when they do, they only pick issues that the world also considers sin. That way, there is no controversy and they can keep playing and not make enemies.

While watching "Pissed Off", one of the new songs from Fit For a King, I noticed that they are singin' and screamin' about war and it's victims. In and of itself, not a bad subject. But I notice they stop short of which war they are referring to. When they do this, they lead the listener to believe that all war is bad, and all war is not bad. (See "The Bible" and the reference to "The Book of the Wars of the Lord".)

Referencing war, abuse, and slavery (as For Today did in their song "Fight the Silence") is good, but to leave out the other major issues like child killing in the womb, homosexuality, gambling, addiction, etc. we are skirting the real issue, and that is trying to be relevant to the world. I see very few bands these days even try to preach Christ (Wolves at the Gate preach boldly).

I'm not saying that every band has to be a ministry band, but if they cross that line to address sin, you'll find that they only address sin that the world also feels is wrong. This way they sound awesome to the world and somehow still feel good about themselves. Remember the debacle For Today found themselves in when one of their members confronted homosexuals? They nearly lost everything during that battle and Mattie tried to speak it away. I doubt we'll see such a battle again.

Gone are the days of Sacred Warrior, Holy Soldier, Steve Taylor, and others openly confronting sin in their lyrics.
Great observation. Saltless salt metal. http://thecmr.forumotion.com/t9309-christian-metal#173974


Last edited by d@v!d on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by crucifyd on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:26 pm

not particularly surprising when they have come up in the modern church and the vast majority of the church does the same thing...
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by strangerhoncho on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:32 pm

Yeah, that's what I was going to say.  It's epidemic among most Christians today because of the intense cultural pressure of political correctness.  If you have any sort of financial risk tied to your views, like a band or a business does, you need to be prepared to lose all of it should you say anything unacceptable.  Welcome to 21st century fascism, American style!

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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by d@v!d on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:53 pm

strangerhoncho wrote:Yeah, that's what I was going to say.  It's epidemic among most Christians today because of the intense cultural pressure of political correctness.  If you have any sort of financial risk tied to your views, like a band or a business does, you need to be prepared to lose all of it should you say anything unacceptable. 
Excellent point.
Welcome to 21st century fascism, American style!

Lol
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by crucifyd on Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:11 pm

strangerhoncho wrote:Yeah, that's what I was going to say.  It's epidemic among most Christians today because of the intense cultural pressure of political correctness.  If you have any sort of financial risk tied to your views, like a band or a business does, you need to be prepared to lose all of it should you say anything unacceptable.  Welcome to 21st century fascism, American style!

I would add in, above all those, bad theology...
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by New Creation on Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:27 pm

crucifyd wrote:
strangerhoncho wrote:Yeah, that's what I was going to say.  It's epidemic among most Christians today because of the intense cultural pressure of political correctness.  If you have any sort of financial risk tied to your views, like a band or a business does, you need to be prepared to lose all of it should you say anything unacceptable.  Welcome to 21st century fascism, American style!

I would add in, above all those, bad theology...

True, but most of the time, bad theology is not at the same level as murder. I disagree with most of you theologically but won't let it get in the way of our interactions.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Temple of Blood on Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:30 pm

Why should we expect mediocre modern "metal" bands to do anything bold?

Metal bands and Christian bands shouldn't expect to have anything anyway.

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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by New Creation on Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:37 pm

Temple of Blood wrote:Why should we expect mediocre modern "metal" bands to do anything bold?

Metal bands and Christian bands shouldn't expect to have anything anyway.

Part of this is my problem. I sat out the Christian music scene for the better part of a decade while I was pastoring churches. I left in 2003 and didn't come back until 2012. A lot changed in that time. It's taken me 4 years to accept that.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by ThomasEversole on Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:38 pm

I don't think even the best Christian metal has much business blanket-addressing sin.  We don't judge each other whether we're holding a bible or a mic, so why go there?

For one, no matter how much of a ministry a band thinks they are, first and foremost, its entertainment.  Using said entertainment for the sole purpose of telling people how screwed up they are is a bit heavy handed.

For two, abortion, homosexuality, human trafficking, political corruption, etc. I'm assuming don't have much to do with a lot of Christians, at least not the Christians on this forum - so why the eagerness to see the condemnation of it unleashed to others?  Anyone who thinks bluntly telling someone how wrong their living their life is how to get them to change it is from the dark ages.

For three, Christianity's best bet is attraction, not promotion or Catholic scare tactics.  God's grace, sobriety, love, peace, etc. are much better topics to bring people in.  If the moral of songs are how wrong you are, how wrong I am, how wrong the world is, crush the head of Satan... well that's rather negative and tacky, don't you think?

Lots of Christians wouldn't listen to lyrics that attacked their lifestyle of praying and attending church.  You expect lyrics attacking a sinful lifestyle will make a different impact to the sinner?

Before the CMR gank squad thinks I'm one of them there gull-dern sin(ner) lovers, I absolutely believe sin should be addressed, ASAP, specifically to the individual.  ...just not with someone just trying to enjoy some tunes. 

Come on people...
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by New Creation on Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:45 pm

Psalm 5:5 "...thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

God hates all sinners and He loved them enough to do something about it, He sent His Son.

Romans 12:9 "Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good."

Paul is telling us to love completely and without hypocrisy. To love completely, we must abhor evil and cling to good. That is the only way to love.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by New Creation on Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:47 pm

It was when I realized I was a sinner, a bad person, that I knew I needed God. It was then, when I trusted His Son Jesus Christ, to save me from the Father's wrath, that I became a saint, a member of the Body of Christ.

People must know they are bad before they can be saved from the judgment.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by d@v!d on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:00 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:I don't think even the best Christian metal has much business blanket-addressing sin.  We don't judge each other whether we're holding a bible or a mic, so why go there?

For one, no matter how much of a ministry a band thinks they are, first and foremost, its entertainment.  Using said entertainment for the sole purpose of telling people how screwed up they are is a bit heavy handed.

For two, abortion, homosexuality, human trafficking, political corruption, etc. I'm assuming don't have much to do with a lot of Christians, at least not the Christians on this forum - so why the eagerness to see the condemnation of it unleashed to others?  Anyone who thinks bluntly telling someone how wrong their living their life is how to get them to change it is from the dark ages.

For three, Christianity's best bet is attraction, not promotion or Catholic scare tactics.  God's grace, sobriety, love, peace, etc. are much better topics to bring people in.  If the moral of songs are how wrong you are, how wrong I am, how wrong the world is, crush the head of Satan... well that's rather negative and tacky, don't you think?

Lots of Christians wouldn't listen to lyrics that attacked their lifestyle of praying and attending church.  You expect lyrics attacking a sinful lifestyle will make a different impact to the sinner?

Before the CMR gank squad thinks I'm one of them there gull-dern sin(ner) lovers, I absolutely believe sin should be addressed, ASAP, specifically to the individual.  ...just not with someone just trying to enjoy some tunes. 

Come on people...
I think, getting back to his principle observation, it's a matter of bands being phony in that they will decry a topic everyone agrees is bad and not touch others. Better to not say anything.

Another thing to consider is the evangelical preaching of the law. Without knowledge of the law, right and wrong, how is one to know that he is a sinner before God? A decrying of evil along with a gospel presentation is good. Evangelical music is a good venue for this.

A great point you bring up is being unnecessarily 'negative and tacky.' I think that it can be done right but if it isn't and it just is 'negative and tacky,' it's better not to say anything.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by ThomasEversole on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:07 pm

New Creation wrote:Psalm 5:5 "...thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

God hates all sinners and He loved them enough to do something about it, He sent His Son.

Romans 12:9 "Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good."

Paul is telling us to love completely and without hypocrisy. To love completely, we must abhor evil and cling to good. That is the only way to love.

New Creation wrote:It was when I realized I was a sinner, a bad person, that I knew I needed God. It was then, when I trusted His Son Jesus Christ, to save me from the Father's wrath, that I became a saint, a member of the Body of Christ.

People must know they are bad before they can be saved from the judgment.

Well, I can answer your last two posts with what I said here.

ThomasEversole wrote:
Before the CMR gank squad thinks I'm one of them there gull-dern sin(ner) lovers, I absolutely believe sin should be addressed, ASAP, specifically to the individual. ...just not with someone just trying to enjoy some tunes.

We both agree on addressing the sin/sinner, I just think its bad form to broadcast it publicly in song, any song.

d@v!d wrote:
I think, getting back to his principle observation, it's a matter of bands being phony in that they will decry a topic everyone agrees is bad and not touch others. Better to not say anything.

That didn't seem like "better to not say anything" was the principle observation when 3 bands (Sacred Warrior, Holy Soldier, Steve Taylor) got a congratulatory nod for broadcasting a form of hate towards sin/sinners.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Temple of Blood on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:23 pm

These bands' music is as soft as their message.

Bands these days are desperate for likes/kudos/$$$ and would rather have that than put in the time/effort to create anything substantial, different, and/or truly provocative.

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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Blake on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:33 pm

Different ministries have different visions and scopes for their focus. Some focus on addiction recovery such as xxx church, while the church down the street may have a focus on bringing people to Christ.

While I do think these subjects should be addressed, I don't think every band needs to be addressing it. Sometimes its best to take things one step at a time, or focus on bringing them into the fold first, then work on other issues.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by d@v!d on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:42 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:That didn't seem like "better to not say anything" was the principle observation when 3 bands (Sacred Warrior, Holy Soldier, Steve Taylor) got a congratulatory nod for broadcasting a form of hate towards sin/sinners.
Wait, from where do we get that these bands are broadcasting hate?
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by d@v!d on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:43 pm

Blake wrote:Different ministries have different visions and scopes for their focus. Some focus on addiction recovery such as xxx church, while the church down the street may have a focus on bringing people to Christ.

While I do think these subjects should be addressed, I don't think every band needs to be addressing it. Sometimes its best to take things one step at a time, or focus on bringing them into the fold first, then work on other issues.
Yes, that too.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by d@v!d on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:43 pm

Men are so lost that they don't even know that they are lost. They need to discover that they are lost before they can be found.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by New Creation on Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:21 pm

Blake wrote:Different ministries have different visions and scopes for their focus. Some focus on addiction recovery such as xxx church, while the church down the street may have a focus on bringing people to Christ.

While I do think these subjects should be addressed, I don't think every band needs to be addressing it. Sometimes its best to take things one step at a time, or focus on bringing them into the fold first, then work on other issues.

This is well put, and I agree, not every band needs address every thing.

I just find it interesting that the bands that do choose to bring up bad stuff only choose things that the world similarly hates.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by KaramKaram on Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:27 pm

study

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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by alldatndensum on Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:31 pm

I think that we need to each evaluate as Christian artists what our goals, calling, target audience, etc.  Knowing all of this will help us to make art that achieves the end goal.  If you want to sing worship songs, then do so.  If you want to preach against sin, then do so.  If you want to tell stories that show sin and social ills to be bad but make you want to hear the song anyway, then do so.

We need all sorts of Christians, musicians or otherwise, to be open, honest, and real.  That will mean that some will unabashedly proclaim the gospel.  Others will serve quietly most of the time but answer questions when asked.  Others still will befriend people and be an influence over a period of time.  The message is still going out.  Some will call out sin.  Others will call out to the sinner.  In the long run, if we have checked our motives at the door and are simply following Jesus, our lives and our art will speak to whoever God chooses to reach with it.

With my new blues album, I have done some storying to make a point without being too heavy handed.  On other songs, I am more direct with my lyrics and will probably be labeled as preachy.  On others, I just went with a silly song that gives the album some extra accessibility for non-Christians.  I focus on some social ills, or sin, if you will like rape and severe child neglect.  In all of this, I am pointing people to Jesus while still taking the time to have fun.  My hopes are that I have made a gospel record that both Christians and non-Christians will listen to whether they agree with everything I say or not.  Glenn Kaiser does the same things minus the silly songs and he has a secular following.

Why did I bring my own project up?  Well, mostly because I think that it shows that we need a solid balance in what we call the Christian music scene.  That balance comes from knowing what the Lord wants you to do and sticking to it even if it means you will forever be relegated to the ranks of the unsigned and almost unknown.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Hardcore Christian on Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:42 pm

alldatndensum wrote:We need all sorts of Christians, musicians or otherwise, to be open, honest, and real.  That will mean that some will unabashedly proclaim the gospel.  Others will serve quietly most of the time but answer questions when asked.  Others still will befriend people and be an influence over a period of time.  The message is still going out.  Some will call out sin.  Others will call out to the sinner.  In the long run, if we have checked our motives at the door and are simply following Jesus, our lives and our art will speak to whoever God chooses to reach with it.
These were my thoughts exactly, great comment alldat. Wink
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by sentient 6 on Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:39 am

New Creation wrote:

I just find it interesting that the bands that do choose to bring up bad stuff only choose things that the world similarly hates.

That should tell you a lot of what is at the heart of the problem.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by sentient 6 on Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:47 am

This is why I always go back to the same point. If a band is not informing their world view by the Word of God ( and with that I do not mean pages in a book ), they can hardly can their music " Christian. "
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by New Creation on Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:24 am

alldatndensum wrote:We need all sorts of Christians, musicians or otherwise, to be open, honest, and real.  That will mean that some will unabashedly proclaim the gospel.  Others will serve quietly most of the time but answer questions when asked.  Others still will befriend people and be an influence over a period of time.  The message is still going out.  Some will call out sin.  Others will call out to the sinner.  In the long run, if we have checked our motives at the door and are simply following Jesus, our lives and our art will speak to whoever God chooses to reach with it.

Hardcore Christian wrote:
alldatndensum wrote:We need all sorts of Christians, musicians or otherwise, to be open, honest, and real.  That will mean that some will unabashedly proclaim the gospel.  Others will serve quietly most of the time but answer questions when asked.  Others still will befriend people and be an influence over a period of time.  The message is still going out.  Some will call out sin.  Others will call out to the sinner.  In the long run, if we have checked our motives at the door and are simply following Jesus, our lives and our art will speak to whoever God chooses to reach with it.
These were my thoughts exactly, great comment alldat. Wink

I agree to an extent, and if my OP did not make this more clear, I apologize. One point I was trying to make, which d@vid restated later, was that you don't have to be a ministry band, nor do you have to call out anything. However, if you decide to take that step, that you will call out sin, be bold enough to call out what God does, not just what CNN does.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by alldatndensum on Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:21 am

I agree to an extent, and if my OP did not make this more clear, I apologize. One point I was trying to make, which d@vid restated later, was that you don't have to be a ministry band, nor do you have to call out anything. However, if you decide to take that step, that you will call out sin, be bold enough to call out what God does, not just what CNN does.

CNN calls out sin?  If that's the case, I am a sinner because I am white, conservative, and own a gun.  That's the message they are preaching!

lol!
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by d@v!d on Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:55 am

alldatndensum wrote:
I agree to an extent, and if my OP did not make this more clear, I apologize. One point I was trying to make, which d@vid restated later, was that you don't have to be a ministry band, nor do you have to call out anything. However, if you decide to take that step, that you will call out sin, be bold enough to call out what God does, not just what CNN does.

CNN calls out sin?  If that's the case, I am a sinner because I am white, conservative, and own a gun.  That's the message they are preaching!

lol!
Wait a minute. You're white? You're racist. You're conservative? You're racist. You own a gun? That's also racist.

Crazy world, huh?
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by d@v!d on Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:12 am

sentient 6 wrote:This is why I always go back to the same point. If a band is not informing their world view by the Word of God ( and with that I do not mean pages in a book ), they can hardly can their music " Christian. "
That's a lot of it. Back in the day when I played in the scene, there wasn't much substance to my bands music. I was always sincere and well intended, but poorly informed because I was lazy and didn't study much and also because I wasn't under good teaching either. We were a bunch of knuckleheads that meant well but didn't have a firm grip on reality.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by xMetalMarkx on Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:53 pm

I don't know if you're already making music, but if "Christian metal"'s lyrical content seems too indirect these days, maybe you can make the kind of "Christian metal" you want to hear?  Metal 2
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Follower of Jesus on Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:38 pm

I think about songs like Deliverance's "No Love", Holy Soldier's "See No Evil", and others like that, yes, I agree with the OP. I hear what alldat is saying too, and I agree with it. Not a quick and easy answer on this one, but the overall observation that something is lacking in this area of Christian metal is a good observation.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by bjorn agin on Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:26 pm

Christian music has always had a lot of diversity as far as their focus. Years ago you had hard hitting bands, and then you had bands who were "Rockin' for the Rock".
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by alldatndensum on Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:01 am

This isn't just a problem that plagues the metal artists.  Christian music as a whole has gotten flowery and just leans to the generic worship music side.  Don't write anything gritty.  It must be something they can sing in church that doesn't offend and brings an easy emotional response.

I blame this part on the labels.  I blame part on shallow Christianity.  The labels will just keep responding to the market not calling for change.  If people wake up and stop buying what the labels are pushing, they will find something different.  However, as long as we've bought into the American dream version of Christianity in the church, we can't expect much more without doing like most of us here and going down the rabbit hole looking for our music.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Friday13th on Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:27 pm

I am the first to argue that each person has a calling, that not every form of Christian entertainment has to address every issue, etc. While those principles are true, I too am getting worried about the reluctance to address sin. Though I recall disagreements with some of my bros here about "good theology" in Christian music and how deep it has to be, acknowledging sin is a very clear antecedent to repentance and saving faith. What happens once no one is allowed address sin? The gospel cannot be preached. 

I recall songs like "Dr. Hatchet" by Seventh Angel and some really intense descriptions of sin in our culture. This idea that people in the church shouldn't address sin is ridiculous and hypocritical, especially in the context of the church. The things progressive Christians like to harp on like war and "oppression" (nice blanket phrase there for every social justice cause) would at least have to be acknowledged as sins at their core, so do we only call out sins that the world already knows is bad? Do we use their definitions of "oppression," "murder" etc?  

I think what's most sad is that this is Christian METAL we're talking about. If metal is sugar-coating its messages and avoiding tough topics, we can be fairly certain we won't get it anywhere else in the arts. That's why my usual argument of "different messages/ministries for different artists" does not work here. THIS is exactly the art that was giving Christians the voice to confront sin and tough, counter-cultural topics. Crying or Very sad Just another day in the regressive world. I pray God finds other means to get these truths across, especially to my generation.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by bjorn agin on Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:49 pm

alldatndensum wrote:This isn't just a problem that plagues the metal artists.  Christian music as a whole has gotten flowery and just leans to the generic worship music side.  Don't write anything gritty.  It must be something they can sing in church that doesn't offend and brings an easy emotional response.

I see a lot of the problem in the CCM realm is that the artists/labels have taken the modern worship genre and run it into the ground. I've (sarcastically) thought before that all you need to make a decent living in Christian music is to write a successful worship song. Then you can sit back and collect royalties from everyone who is recording a cover of your song.

I think there is a line of thought in some churches that says that worship music is the "best" music, because -you know- it ushers you into God's presence. What could be better than that?!? But all the while we are tapping our toes along with our singing of God's love forever and ever, we are letting the world outside the church slide on by without even trying to reach them.

Let me say, I don't think worship music is a bad thing. I just think it's been done ad nauseum in the Christian music market.

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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Friday13th on Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:58 pm

^not a big Petra fan, but always liked that one. Good insight, bjorn. Let me add that worshiping God in deed is equally if not more important than worshiping Him with our lips and with song.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by alldatndensum on Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:51 am

bjorn agin wrote:
alldatndensum wrote:This isn't just a problem that plagues the metal artists.  Christian music as a whole has gotten flowery and just leans to the generic worship music side.  Don't write anything gritty.  It must be something they can sing in church that doesn't offend and brings an easy emotional response.

I see a lot of the problem in the CCM realm is that the artists/labels have taken the modern worship genre and run it into the ground. I've (sarcastically) thought before that all you need to make a decent living in Christian music is to write a successful worship song. Then you can sit back and collect royalties from everyone who is recording a cover of your song.

I think there is a line of thought in some churches that says that worship music is the "best" music, because -you know- it ushers you into God's presence. What could be better than that?!? But all the while we are tapping our toes along with our singing of God's love forever and ever, we are letting the world outside the church slide on by without even trying to reach them.

Let me say, I don't think worship music is a bad thing. I just think it's been done ad nauseum in the Christian music market.




I agree with that.  I also believe that this is part the fault of labels and partly because of shallow Christians who want lyrics that make them feel good.  Most Christian music these days seems to be made for the Rick Warren/Joel Osteen type churches which are becoming way to prevalent.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by ThomasEversole on Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:33 am

The more I think about this, the more it seems like an unjustified 3rd party complaint. I mean, we want grittier sin-centered lyrics that apply to someone else.

Is there any fact behind these types of lyrics actually being a benefit to the lost? Or are we just cheering and jeering at the thought of bad guys getting more fingers pointed at them?

alldatndensum wrote:
I blame this part on the labels.  I blame part on shallow Christianity.  The labels will just keep responding to the market not calling for change.  If people wake up and stop buying what the labels are pushing, they will find something different.

Wow. Just wow on the inaccuracy of this.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by ThomasEversole on Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:06 am

d@v!d wrote:
ThomasEversole wrote:That didn't seem like "better to not say anything" was the principle observation when 3 bands (Sacred Warrior, Holy Soldier, Steve Taylor) got a congratulatory nod for broadcasting a form of hate towards sin/sinners.
Wait, from where do we get that these bands are broadcasting hate?

Hate the sin, love the sinner is a cop-out.

Let's say you enjoy riding bikes with a passion. You notice my band has several songs against riding bikes - which means if you're a musician, you know I put my blood sweat and tears into it. I have tshirts saying how wrong riding bikes is. I'll look you square in the eye while holding an anti-bike riding sign and boldly tell you that riding bikes is what's wrong with the world today.

Now, after all that, let me ask you.
Do you feel my Christian love as a filthy bike rider?
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by WildWorld on Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:09 am

A better solution would be to write songs that talk about the effects of sin. For example, the skillet song Lucy, which is about the regrets of a couple who aborted their baby. Much more effective than a generic "abortion is bad" song (which is a topic some secular bands like slayer and enuff znuff have tackled too btw).

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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by ThomasEversole on Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:53 pm

Wouldn't referencing just the effects of sin be (to quote the original post) "skirting" the real issue?
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by bjorn agin on Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:59 pm

Isn't this the kind of question any pastor asks when considering how to deliver a message to their church? I think a lot of what we perceive as "soft" in today's preaching culture is a conveying a message of God's love to a crowd that has a history of being beat up by religion and following the rules churches. I suppose with anything though there is a balance. You need to speak the truth in love.

"Who are these people behind the stained glass windows?
Have they forgotten just what they came here for?
Was it salvation or scared of hell
Or an assembly of a social get-together?

What's the mission of the Preacher Man?
Some are true, some do lie
What's the mission of the Preacher Man?"

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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by alldatndensum on Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:57 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:The more I think about this, the more it seems like an unjustified 3rd party complaint. I mean, we want grittier sin-centered lyrics that apply to someone else.

Is there any fact behind these types of lyrics actually being a benefit to the lost? Or are we just cheering and jeering at the thought of bad guys getting more fingers pointed at them?

alldatndensum wrote:
I blame this part on the labels.  I blame part on shallow Christianity.  The labels will just keep responding to the market not calling for change.  If people wake up and stop buying what the labels are pushing, they will find something different.

Wow. Just wow on the inaccuracy of this.



How is that inaccurate?  Just throwing a "wow" on that doesn't make it so.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by ThomasEversole on Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:42 am

You're right. My wow doesn't make it inaccurate.

Between my brother and myself, our projects have let us work with a double digit number of labels. ...ranging from underground, to indie, to Forefront. What are your references?

You're giving labels way too much credit to blame them for weak lyrics. They simply focus on performance and presentation. Lyrics are either not a fit or a non issue.

You saying labels intentionally push watered down lyrical content is beyond bizarre insanely rare behavior from 1 record company, or you made it up.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Blake on Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:24 am

I can honestly say that while we were prepping Reanimated Radio for launch I had one DJ (who is no longer with us, but not for this reason) who wanted to create an entire section of the site devoted to discussion of "controversial subjects" in particular homosexuality. I admit I quickly shot that idea down because while I do think its a real issue today, I feel that scaring them off before they have a chance to listen is counter-intuitive.

I think theres a right way and a wrong way to tackle these kind of topics. But a heavy-handed "I just want to stir the pot" method that he wanted just didn't seem like a great idea.

I may be wrong or I may be right, but I think even as a ministry its still important to take into account the overall affect on your ministry. Deal with sensitive topics carefully or your ministry will be forever seen in a bad light, just because of a carelessly worded statement.

And you cant reach the lost if the lost will no longer listen to you.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by bjorn agin on Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:29 am

A good example of how you handle lyrics:

On the new One Bad Pig record there is a track "What does the fool say?" about atheists.  While the song plays well to those in the church, I don't think it would translate well to those outside the church. I'm friends with a few atheists. They would probably be offended by the lyrics.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by alldatndensum on Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:05 pm


You're giving labels way too much credit to blame them for weak lyrics. They simply focus on performance and presentation. Lyrics are either not a fit or a non issue.

You saying labels intentionally push watered down lyrical content is beyond bizarre insanely rare behavior from 1 record company, or you made it up.

Have you listened to Christian radio lately?  Having known several people who have worked in this industry, they do push artists to be as general as possible so that the lyrics aren't offensive to anyone.  They use a lot of the same writers for artists as well.  It may not be as much in the harder rock arenas, but the labels DO pay writers to say what they want in both the secular and Christian market.  If artists won't perform said material, they can be cut from a record deal.  The labels are partially to blame as this is what they are pushing.  Shallow Christianity sucks it up because it makes them feel good without asking someone to truly have a deeper commitment, confront their own sin, etc.  Its bland musically and lyrically.
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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

Post by Temple of Blood on Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:29 pm

I don't think anything you just described happens in Christian METAL or on Christian METAL labels.

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Re: Christian metal no longer confronts sin

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