Is there any room left to grow in metal?

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Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Ugly on Tue May 31, 2016 8:26 pm

Today i was in the mood for something different, metal wise, and couldn't think of anything. It's all been done. Industrial metal, math metal, doom, female vocals, all female, core, black, death, cyber, celtic, mixing in jazz, blues, and on and on. Masks. Makeup. Aliens sent to destroy earth. Vikings. Pirates. Middle Eastern. Slow. Fast. Singing. Screaming. Growling. Whining. 1000 subgenres of metal now. So what is left for metal to expand into that is unique, and GOOD? What can metal do that hasn't already been done?
Seems the last unique thing i heard in metal was Baby Metal. And no... just no. Is this the end of creativity for metal? That we're now scraping the bottom of the barrel of creativity to hear something new because there is nothing left to do?
There are a ton of talented musicians anymore. There are so few new standout bands and musicians and even those don't really stand that far out. The bar has been raised so high that now everyone is equal and out of original ideas.
Anyone else see this, or able to showcase a valid argument against this? I'd love to be proven wrong, honestly.
I'm not even talking about just the styles i like, but about metal as a whole.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by New Creation on Tue May 31, 2016 8:43 pm

I was wondering about the same thing recently, both for metal and for electronic. But then, in the electronic field, I learned about nightcore, splittercore and extratone.

So, perhaps there is room in metal for something new as well.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by deathisgain on Tue May 31, 2016 8:47 pm

I am sure there will always be something else. Like Country Rap Death Bit Core Boy Band metal.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by alldatndensum on Tue May 31, 2016 9:55 pm

Even when there is something new, it so closely resembles something else that most folks couldn't tell you what was new about it.  Truthfully, I think that most of what can and will be explored in metal is already here.  Much of that, I wish would go away.  (LOL)  So, even if something new and different comes, unless it catches my ear immediately, I am just gonna keep on revisiting what I like and any new bands that play in those veins.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by elparanorman on Tue May 31, 2016 10:34 pm

I think we've pretty much covered everything there is to cover in metal. Now people are starting to do gimmicks to change things up like Babymetal.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by alldatndensum on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:07 am

ParaNormaN wrote:I think we've pretty much covered everything there is to cover in metal. Now people are starting to do gimmicks to change things up like Babymetal.



Exactly.  We've learned that metal, while it sells to us hardcore fans, isn't selling like it used to.  So, in order to garner popularity, bands are going to have to mix in everything else to make it profitable.  Babymetal still retains the metal sound but has incorporated young girls with dance routines to give them a pop sensibility.  Bands like Skillet and Nine Lashes are embracing the more poppy sound to give them more radio airplay and exposure.  You will see more and more metal mixups that in the end really are not metal--just pop with metal overtones.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Grindboy on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:13 am

Babymetal is the perfect test case.  When the world gives us Babymetal, there might not be much left to see.  I feel much the same, and I still pick up some new stuff from bands that I really, really like from time to time, but paradoxically in a search for something new I've been listening to classical music mostly for the past while.

All of that said, as much as "there is nothing new under the sun," there's someone somewhere that's stumbling across something that I can't imagine.  Maybe it will be amazing, maybe it will be ridiculous (again, Babymetal???), but I'm sure there will be something!

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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Blake on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:57 am

There are a lot of gimmicks out there, I guess Amelioration would fall under that category with it's dubstep-grind
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:51 am

I have been alive from the beginning of metal...I have witnessed it grow from the 70s to what we have today..I think everything we hear from this point forward will be a rehash of years gone by..even baby metal isnt that groundbreaking to me..every generations metal can be traced to the decade's before and to other styles of metal and rock..

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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by WildWorld on Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:48 pm

alldatndensum wrote:
ParaNormaN wrote:I think we've pretty much covered everything there is to cover in metal. Now people are starting to do gimmicks to change things up like Babymetal.



Exactly.  We've learned that metal, while it sells to us hardcore fans, isn't selling like it used to.  So, in order to garner popularity, bands are going to have to mix in everything else to make it profitable.  Babymetal still retains the metal sound but has incorporated young girls with dance routines to give them a pop sensibility.  Bands like Skillet and Nine Lashes are embracing the more poppy sound to give them more radio airplay and exposure.  You will see more and more metal mixups that in the end really are not metal--just pop with metal overtones.

So, the 80s hair metal scene all over again?

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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by alldatndensum on Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:56 pm

Funny.

While I could see that, 80s hair metal was just a more slick version of much of the 70s hard rock & metal.  There was still a ton of exploration and innovation with the guitar, bass, and drums within that framework.

What I am talking about is the dilution of metal much like we've seen happen to country music.  It isn't country anymore--it is pop infused with some country overtones.  It could be played on any station, not just country stations.  I think you will see that with most of the major labels to the point that all music is relatively the same.  Just keep mass producing the same thing over and over and calling it "new".  If that didn't work, then why is Taylor Swift so popular?  You could insert any pop star right now and, for the most part, we won't be talking about their superior song writing, singing, or musicianship.  CCM is fraught with this mundane way of making music.  Pop is fraught with it.  Except for the indie artist who won't get heard because the labels and RIAA control radio, satellite radio, and streaming sites, you won't hear anything that ventures far from what is deemed to be the formula that the labels consider a successful hit.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Soldier777 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:32 pm

I got into hard rock/metal in 1985. For the past 30+ years I have enjoyed the same few styles: hard rock (Daniel Band, Rez Band, Petra), commercial/glam metal (Sttyper, early Holy Soldier), power/classic Metal (Saint, Sacred Warrior), technical/progressive (Impelitteri), and thrash (early deliverance). These are the main styles I am into and I am quite happy with my metal collection in these styles. I don't go out an look out for new styles of metal unless I come across something through a recommendation or an album review.

However, I like seeing younger bands like Theocracy and Chaotic Resemblance incorporate the more classic styles like those listed above in their music. It's kind of like taking the torch pass to them by veteran bands like Bloodgood and Stryper. Actually, Les said to a Chaotic Resemblance member you are what Bloodgood was back when we started.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by strangerhoncho on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:31 am

Eventually it will reach a saturation point, sure. 

But we still haven't got any bluegrass thrash (i.e. American folk metal) or rap death metal, so there's still room for growth!

And there's still plenty of room for actual good songwriting to come into metal.  99% of it is proficient musically, but lacks good songwriting or a unique vocalist.  Those elements are always going to be uncommon and will sound "new" when they come around.

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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Ugly on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:00 pm

strangerhoncho wrote:But we still haven't got any bluegrass thrash (i.e. American folk metal)

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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Ugly on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:02 pm

strangerhoncho wrote:rap death metal, so there's still room for growth!

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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by alldatndensum on Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:03 pm

After hearing that, I will have to ask: do we really WANT that kind of :growth" in metal?

That was horrid.  Worse than Jake from State Farm.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Soldier777 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:24 pm

Has anyone see the Canadian series called Metal Evolition?  The was a tree displayed on the screen and he said there was something like 36 sub genres of metal. I'm not sure if we need more styles.


Last edited by Soldier777 on Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:52 pm

True innovation only comes along rarely - I'd say the most influential bands/artists over the last 10-15 years in terms of really making an impact on how metal sounds are Meshuggah, Gojira, Devin Townsend, and Killswitch Engage. 

Death metal has been influenced by the deathcore movement, stuff like JFAC (remember them?) and Whitechapel brought breakdowns into death metal, and that came from the bands influences in both the death metal (Cannibal Corpse, Dying Fetus, etc), and the big, chuggy breakdowns that often show up in a lot of beatdown hardcore (think Seventh Star's Brood Of Vipers album, Earth Crisis, etc). 

A lot more live bands have begun the embrace the power of a good live show - some of the biggest metal bands on the planet (Rammstein, Slipknot, Nightwish) have amazing stage shows, and some smaller bands are also embracing that (for example, Watain).

There's always some form of retro revival going on as well, be it thrash, classic rock, or just straight up heavy metal, and these bands as well as being clearly influenced by their predecessors, often bring some of their own sound to the mix (The Darkness, Municipal Waste).

For every Led Zeppelin there are countless other bands from the same era which have been completely forgotten about for not doing anything of note.

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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Ugly on Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:52 pm

It's not all about mixing styles. That's not my point. My point is how it seems metal has come to the end of it's creative rope. Even looking at rapcore, which mostly had a lot of cookie cutter artists and little originality, Rage Against the Machine stood out as taking it to a higher level and more creative. It seems there is nothing new to make, and i don't see any room left to take things to higher levels.

And a retro revival isn't anything new or creative, really. There may be some growth in those genres, but nothing that really stands out.

Though not sure i could say death metal has been influenced by deathcore. It's just deathcore. Death metal and breakdowns. It's its own genre, or subgenre or whatever.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Hardcore Christian on Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:15 am

Ugly wrote:That's not my point. My point is how it seems metal has come to the end of it's creative rope.
I think everything in this world has reached the end of creativity in almost every entertainment/art form.

Most movies nowadays are reboots,sequels,prequels etc.

Even " original movies " aren't completely original.

Most TV shows are re-iterations or remakes of older ones.
Most books can be described as having parallel story arcs or characters as previously released stories. study

So I don't think worrying about the end of creativity in metal is something to really think that much about, when just about everything has been done before.

I like the genres that I like, and will continue to buy those genre's releases till I die.

Same with movies, television, and books, I will probably watch every Batman movie that ever is released in my life time, just the same.

Thats my response, I dont really know what the answer is your looking for. Wink
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by alldatndensum on Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:05 am

Ugly wrote:It's not all about mixing styles. That's not my point. My point is how it seems metal has come to the end of it's creative rope.


When you really start mixing styles, to me, you are watering down the genre.  Eventually, it all just ends up blended into something mass marketed like a nasty ol' Twinkie that anyone can get.  It is all just over-processed junk that no one really wants to hear.

I get what you are saying, Ugly.  Did I just call you "ugly"? Razz  I think you are right in saying that we've done about all we can.  I would imagine that most musical styles have ran the gamut as well.  The example of little originality in movies, books, tv, etc. shows that we are coming to our creative ends because of mass marketing and the ease of anyone putting out product.
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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:28 pm

The real question is does metal need to evolve anymore...there are so many bands in so many genres and several generations of fans that everyone can find plenty of stuff to like...and its cool to watch ones favorite genre survive with new and old bands for decades...

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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by Temple of Blood on Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:46 pm

Of course there is room for it to grow.  This question is ridiculous on it's face.

A better question is "are the popular metal bands evolving" or "will the metal scene support new bands who are truly creative"?

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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by oldschooldoom on Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:24 am

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Re: Is there any room left to grow in metal?

Post by messiaen77 on Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:41 pm

I don't think growth necessarily means outward growth.  I think I'm agreeing with what Temple of Blood seems to be saying.  There are a bajillion bands out there playing whatever style, but only a relative handful are actually producing quality music.  I think the next step in the "evolution" of metal needs to focus on making more quality, creative music within the existing framework for metal and not coming up with a new and different way of mixing sounds together to create a new style/subgenre of metal.  Of all the thrash bands back in the 80s/90s, what made "The Big 4" stick out?  Of all the boy bands, why are Backstreet Boys and NSync still popular?  One of the things I criticize my fellow music scholars for is dismissing popular music as being formulaic (as if classical symphonies aren't, but that's another discussion...).  I think there's a lot to be said for being able to take a formula and make quality art with it.  For example, Irving Berlin and George Gershwin vs. 99% of Tin Pan Alley songwriters or Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Benny Goodman vs. 95% of swing band leaders in the 30s and 40s.
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