Christian Metal?

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Christian Metal?

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:25 am

Could it be that Christian metal was a fad in the 80s and 90s and is now really just and underground genre? Alot of "Christian" bands these days hate being "Christian" and are moving away from it...They hate the tag and are moving into the secular arena...Maybe these "christian" metal music stores are dying because "Christian" metal is dying..Seems like these days its ok to be a christian in a band but not so acceptable to be a christian band...Stryper has had thoughts on this and even Pastor Bob has commented on this..agreeing with Stryper Shocked  ...What do ya'll think..

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by metaldude on Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:08 am

I understand both sides of this issue and I find myself right in the middle. As a fan, I don't mind the label because it helps me with lyrical scrutiny. There are simply some lyrical themes I don't want poured into my head. That said, I realize there is much more to the principles of God other than "Jesus saves". Christianity begins at the cross, it doesn't end there. There are many life issues to be walked out and I also like songs that deal with those issues. Unfortunately, when artists start doing this, they are criticized for not having strong lyrical content. I think this is where part of the label resentment comes from. Also, there is this ridiculous idea that if you're a Christian, you're a second rate musician, or band. I don't agree with that at all. I can understand why a band wouldn't want to be put in a box, so to speak, but I  do like having some indicator as to what I am about to spend my money on.

It might seem contradictory, but that's where I stand.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Deepfriar on Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:10 am

I prefer Christianity-inspired lyrics in heavy metal and will cling to my extensive Christian metal collection as long as I live. Other than that, it doesn't really matter to me. I have definitely noticed a decline in the 'mainstream' Christian bands but like you said the underground scene is still thriving in my opinion. The question is whether or not it will be able to continue. I am sure that underground Christian metal bands will tell you they are not in it for the money, so I don't see why we can't press on. These are thought-provoking issues though... have Christian bands alienated their audience because it is an 'exclusive' 'Christian' club? But then again, if the artists want to write about their faith in detail, would the secular labels even allow them? How much control do the labels have over the lyrics? I.E. if a band signs with record label and record label is not aware the members are Christian, and they write 10 songs about Jesus and submit it to the record label, does the label HAVE to release the music? Or do most record label contracts include clauses about limitations of lyrical content?
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Blake on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:07 pm

metaldude wrote:I understand both sides of this issue and I find myself right in the middle. As a fan, I don't mind the label because it helps me with lyrical scrutiny. There are simply some lyrical themes I don't want poured into my head. That said, I realize there is much more to the principles of God other than "Jesus saves". Christianity begins at the cross, it doesn't end there. There are many life issues to be walked out and I also like songs that deal with those issues. Unfortunately, when artists start doing this, they are criticized for not having strong lyrical content. I think this is where part of the label resentment comes from. Also, there is this ridiculous idea that if you're a Christian, you're a second rate musician, or band. I don't agree with that at all. I can understand why a band wouldn't want to be put in a box, so to speak, but I  do like having some indicator as to what I am about to spend my money on.

It might seem contradictory, but that's where I stand.

I'm pretty much in the same boat. If we didn't have the label "Christian band" then it would pretty much be impossible to run a Christian metal ministry or radio station in my case. Given that I only play Christian metal with the purpose of reaching the lost, having every band say "oh we are Christians, but not a Christian band" creates confusion and makes it exceedingly difficult to search out appropriate bands.

Sure the Christians in a band title sounds fine, but the problem with that in the end there will be people legitimately looking for Christian music from their point of view if band A are Christians in a band then it should be equally as spiritually edifying for them to listen to some secular gangster rap...since you know almost all of them say they are Christians and thank jesus for everything.

Bands are not afraid to call themselves satanic black metal, why should we be afraid. But I guess it comes down to sales.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:35 pm

I'm pretty much in the same boat. If we didn't have the label "Christian band" then it would pretty much be impossible to run a Christian metal ministry or radio station in my case. Given that I only play Christian metal with the purpose of reaching the lost, having every band say "oh we are Christians, but not a Christian band" creates confusion and makes it exceedingly difficult to search out appropriate bands.
I fully understand what you are saying here but I wonder how many non Christians listen to a "Christian" metal radio station or go to a Christian metal concert...Deepfriar makes a good point when he talked about "Christian bands alienated their audience because it is an 'exclusive' 'Christian' club"...I mean if we are to take the gospel to the lost then we have to hang out with the lost...I remember back in the 80s and 90s you could find alot of christian metal albums at not only christian book stores but secular ones as well...The Hastings in the city I grew up in always had some stryper, Petra, Barren Cross, Holy Soldier, Whitecross, Tourniquet, Bride, Guardian, REZ and a handful of various artist stuff on the shelf...It was just metal...Our local radio station back then played all those artist on the radio along with Ac/Dc, Motley, Ratt, Metallica and all the rest of the bands...Now I hear no Christian metal on the radio (except stryper) and I can't find any christian titles on the shelf except the occasional stryper or petra...Even at the flea market and goodwills I never see any old Christian bands..and I live in Tulsa..The christian metal mecca back in the 90s.. Thats what makes me think Christian metal was a fad back then but is near death now..plus bands releasing albums is maybe 10% of what it used to be...But secular metal is flooding the markets all the time... So maybe its better to be a christian in a band who writes lyrics that express whats in your heart and just call it metal and not make it a ministry...or even bring up the christian aspect unless asked out right...

Bands are not afraid to call themselves satanic black metal, why should we be afraid. But I guess it comes down to sales.
Satanic bands have an image of evil, rebellion and mystery and that is alluring and attractive to people ...The word "Christian" generally makes people think of the old church lady or some rich stale republican...

   

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by alldatndensum on Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:03 am

Christian music stores aren't dying because of the lack of metal.  They are dying because A) people don't buy physical product and B) most of the label driven music is stinky generic crap.

I don't think that Christian music is a fad.  While there are some artists that have had some pretty good level of sales, concert attendance, etc., the scene as a whole has always been more of an underground movement.  The more corporate it has become seems that the less people care.  To be honest, I think bands that weren't well known seem to have more of a heart for what they do.  The whole scene can go underground again for all I care.

Besides, it is not just a drop in Christian metal.  There is a drop in quality METAL in general.  The old bands can't draw a stadium full like they used to and play in clubs again.  Metal sales are down for many bands and even signed artists have to work a full time job to make ends meet.  It could be said that METAL in general was more of a fad in the 80s and 90s.  It is an art form that is in decline just like my parents rock and country they loved in the 50s-80s declined and died or morphed into something they hated.  Metal is doing the same whether it wears the label Christian or not.

As long as streaming is the new medium for music delivery, Gene Simmons has declared it best when he said that the day of the big rock band is dead.  Mass produced drivel both in the secular and sacred realms is what the corporations check out because it is cheaply made and they don't earn the profits off of streaming as they did album sales.  ALL GOOD MUSIC is in a decline.  All styles are fads.  No one wants to think of it, but our generation's music is fading and will one day go into obscurity just like the doo-wop bands, sixties hippy bands, and traditionalist country.  It isn't just a Christian thing.


Last edited by alldatndensum on Sun May 01, 2016 9:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:29 pm

Granted..there is alot of streaming and downloading these days but cd's and vinyl still sell millions of copys..in fact I have noticed almost all new releases on vinyl as well as cd...There is tons of great modern new secular metal coming out..especially in Europe.. I even see some of it in my area...If you visit places like dallas, Houston, Memphis, Chicago and LA you can find it on the shelves everywhere.. Where we live metal bands play the smaller 2800 to 3500 venues alot with a handful of bands playing the arena..In fact I am surprised of some of the bands selling 15,000 tickets at our arena..bands like Modest Mouse, Shinedown, Coldplay and a 90s tour featuring All-4-One, Coolio, Kool Moe Dee, Kid ‘n Play, Salt-N-Pepa, Tone Loc and Vanilla Ice... In Europe metal still fills arenas and festivals.. Check out the heart of metal forum or the hair mansion forum to find new bands with new albums..I just dont see much coming out in christian metal these days nor do I see bands these days seeing it as a ministry or an outreach like in the 80s and 90s...lots of them these days just say we are Christians and we have a band..

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Hardcore Christian on Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:17 pm

alldatndensum wrote: No one wants to think of it, but our generation's music is fading and will one day go into obscurity just like the doo-wop bands, sixties hippy bands, and traditionalist country.  It isn't just a Christian thing.
I agree
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Gorship on Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:58 pm

Savage Amusement wrote:Could it be that Christian metal was a fad in the 80s and 90s and is now really just and underground genre?

I think Metal in general is quite underground, you I dont hear Metal on the radio ever. Mind you metal now is quite a bit heavier and grittier than times past. 

Alot of "Christian" bands these days hate being "Christian" and are moving away from it...They hate the tag and are moving into the secular arena...

Pastor Bob mentioned this quite a bit in the Extol DVD. One day I agree and the next I disagree with it. The idea that "Good music should just be good music", sounds great on paper. However your a young christian and you want to find music that brings glory to God and Jesus. The label really helps... So here's the dilemma; Do you drop the label, and people come to your show and you just throw the Jesus on them? Or are you honest with your fans and have the label and accept some people wont like you for it (its not like the Bible doesn't warn you). Now I will say this, if you are a christian but don't want Christ to be in your music at all (which is said by some bands, and I cant fathom that myself) then dropping the label makes sense. So I think, in heaven, music will be music. However this side of heaven, there are young Christian and non-christian kids/adults who need to be uplifted.

There's also a dilemma in expecting too much from bands I think causing pressure and to relieve that pressure, they feel need to drop the title. I like my music to be bold, in your face, Jesus loves you, you need His atonement for your sin for everlasting life. Truth. Music. However when I expect all the bands that I enjoy to do the evangelism for me I've missed the mark. (perhaps) We kind of shy away from evangelism and expect to have friends in the car, jamming away and then hope they'll hear a "Jesus wants to have a relationship with you and to save you" line and we'll get that window of opportunity. Instead of just bringing our faith up. For me, If I had the talent, sure my lyrics would be like that. However most of the CM out there, is very allegory or left to be interpreted. War of Ages talks a lot about God. However its vague and mormons and JW's can get just as much out of it as Christians... Is that ok? Is it the responsibility of the band to point out cults in lyrics too? At this rate we need a check list for our CM bands "missionary, theologian, evangelist, etc". I wont lie I struggle with this part a lot. There's some real poor theology in some CM bands, just awful lol. I think the church has a big part of that. I go to an IFB church. Conservative with a big Capital C. I get a long great with everyone in terms of faith and practice, but as soon as music comes up, im the odd man out. I am convicted and convinced however that if solid churches were to stop hindering bands, and start helping bands. Bring them into a play a show, give them resources for their studies while travelling, check in on them, pray for them. We would start seeing some unity. We dont have to agree on all things doctrine wise, but surely, The Gospel is a common ground. So I will say not that i have a big demographic to talk to, I fight for CM often in a very very conservative church. So when the in it for the money guys come out and slap the Christian label on, its a bit a nuisance to explain.

So I dunno. I think CM bands are getting burn't out. If they are truly Christians themselves, they will have to answer for what they did with their talents. As listeners we are to use discernment. I think the Label is good for finding out which bands to look into. Its a shame we have to look into it, but we are to try the spirits to see if they are of God (1 John 4:1) in a similar manner, we should be testing what goes into our ears. In a perfect world if it were up to me record labels would reach out to churches more and talk to them and have places for bands to go on a Sunday while on the road for refreshment instead of persecution. the lack of attendance from millennials in church is staggering. So hopefully that articulates my thoughts... there's a lot of give take. No ones perfect. If you want perfection coming out of your speakers, play an audio Bible through your speakers, cause thats the best you'll get. otherwise prepare to not always be happy with sinful humans.

Maybe these "christian" metal music stores are dying because "Christian" metal is dying..

I think metalcore is still quite popular... I feel like CMR member hardcore christian is much more versed than me on how much material is coming out from them lately.

Seems like these days its ok to be a christian in a band but not so acceptable to be a christian band...

Being a christian in general is becoming unacceptable. The beauty is Metal has always been about challenging the status quo. Christianity is so metal that way. Which for me is another point for dealing with it and keeping the label.

Stryper has had thoughts on this and even Pastor Bob has commented on this..agreeing with Stryper Shocked  ...What do ya'll think..

I find the comment so interesting from Mr. Sweet. "we are not a Christian rock band; we are a rock band comprised of Christians." , his reasoning. Doesnt like labels, as they can be limiting. I just disagree, you still have all the freedom to write what you want, people just know there will be no filthy communication or perverseness in your songs (Hopefully that's not a lot to ask from christians in a rock band?) 

a lot of it seems to come down to sales... which really just flat out dissapoints me. Money or (in my opinion) making it easier for people to find some music that isn't perverse.


this was a lot longer winded than I expected....let the hate mail commence.   No
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by deathisgain on Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:02 pm

I always find it interesting that a lot of doom bands can sing songs ripped straight from the Bible, and no one in that genre blinks and eye.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Soldier777 on Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:55 pm

Unless you are a legacy/veteran/classic band like Stryper and Petra or a modern band like Demon Hunter, most bands are diversified where they have another job outside of music or are involved in other bands and music related projects like producing, promoting or are in other bands. All Stryper and Petra has to do is say they are going on a certain type of  tour and regardless if they have a new album out and people will book them. It may not be a large arena type of tour but instead it may be a club, church or a theater type of tour. A lot of it has to do with the name of the band in terms of branding. Masses of people will identify with certain bands.

I don't think Christian Hard Rock/Metal as a whole is underground but it depends on the style of music/the scene or the band. Many in their late 30's or older who are not Christians and are familiar with the 80's metal scene has heard of Stryper - there are several in my work place in that age bracket that has heard of them and has heard their music such as the album To Hell With the Devil. Some has even heard of Petra, Barren Cross, Holy Soldier, Guardian and Whitecross.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Andreas89 on Sun May 01, 2016 7:24 am

Gorship wrote:
I find the comment so interesting from Mr. Sweet. "we are not a Christian rock band; we are a rock band comprised of Christians." , his reasoning. Doesnt like labels, as they can be limiting. I just disagree, you still have all the freedom to write what you want, people just know there will be no filthy communication or perverseness in your songs (Hopefully that's not a lot to ask from christians in a rock band?) 

a lot of it seems to come down to sales... which really just flat out dissapoints me. Money or (in my opinion) making it easier for people to find some music that isn't perverse.
this was a lot longer winded than I expected....let the hate mail commence.   No
No hatemail for you!

I'd just like to point out that it's highly unlikely that Stryper wants to avoid this tag for sales or anything. I mean, every metalhead who doesn't think about christianity when thinking about Stryper, has been living under a rock for quite some time Razz  So I think Sweet's reluctance has an honest foundation, no matter what you think about it.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by exo on Sun May 01, 2016 7:36 am

My thoughts on the matter are that were I in a band/published musician, I'm far more likely to reject the tag than embrace it.  I do not wish to pigeonhole what I do into the concept that is is intended to minister to or entertain a "Christian audience", which is EXACTLY where the vast bulk of "Christian bands" end up.  That notion would very much be at cross purposes with my intent, thus I would try to avoid it.......it also seems that the tag "Christian band" these days is more or less just as much of a marketing tool as a declaration of faith, which is something else I have a strong philosophical disagreement with.  To be honest, I would expect that the reluctance to embrace the label might actually HURT sales of a project, as the label tends to give a bit of a built in "captive audience". 

I would answer the "are you a Christian band?" question with "I myself am, I believe the music and lyrics can stand for themselves in that regard, but I have no wish to denigrate my beliefs by using them as a marketing tool".

I have no quarrel with folks or bands that WOULD actively seek the label out; they have their reasons for doing so.  I just hold to a different philosophical view about things.......

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Throne of thorns on Sun May 01, 2016 5:24 pm

Savage Amusement wrote:
I'm pretty much in the same boat. If we didn't have the label "Christian band" then it would pretty much be impossible to run a Christian metal ministry or radio station in my case. Given that I only play Christian metal with the purpose of reaching the lost, having every band say "oh we are Christians, but not a Christian band" creates confusion and makes it exceedingly difficult to search out appropriate bands.
I fully understand what you are saying here but I wonder how many non Christians listen to a "Christian" metal radio station or go to a Christian metal concert...Deepfriar makes a good point when he talked about "Christian bands alienated their audience because it is an 'exclusive' 'Christian' club"...I mean if we are to take the gospel to the lost then we have to hang out with the lost...I remember back in the 80s and 90s you could find alot of christian metal albums at not only christian book stores but secular ones as well...The Hastings in the city I grew up in always had some stryper, Petra, Barren Cross, Holy Soldier, Whitecross, Tourniquet, Bride, Guardian, REZ and a handful of various artist stuff on the shelf...It was just metal...Our local radio station back then played all those artist on the radio along with Ac/Dc, Motley, Ratt, Metallica and all the rest of the bands...Now I hear no Christian metal on the radio (except stryper) and I can't find any christian titles on the shelf except the occasional stryper or petra...Even at the flea market and goodwills I never see any old Christian bands..and I live in Tulsa..The christian metal mecca back in the 90s.. Thats what makes me think Christian metal was a fad back then but is near death now..plus bands releasing albums is maybe 10% of what it used to be...But secular metal is flooding the markets all the time... So maybe its better to be a christian in a band who writes lyrics that express whats in your heart and just call it metal and not make it a ministry...or even bring up the christian aspect unless asked out right...

Bands are not afraid to call themselves satanic black metal, why should we be afraid. But I guess it comes down to sales.
Satanic bands have an image of evil, rebellion and mystery and that is alluring and attractive to people ...The word "Christian" generally makes people think of the old church lady or some rich stale republican...

   

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lol You know which way I'm going! Some really good questions here in this thread that me think about the whole christian label thing. I used to be against it and I think it has limited quite a number of bands from becoming a house hold name think rez white cross white heart seventh angel even mortification particularly early stuff and others. So in this way it is not a great label to deem and not to mention financially. In the 80's and early 90's there was a productive market place for that Label "Christian metal" it was lucrative so much so that even as i hear it secular musicians who could not get a footing in the "secular" music world opted for the Christian label......I think if i am not mistaken rage of angels was a band much like this. I can see stypers view on it also from Gippers stand point and how it would limit them as a musician and moving forward but they pretty well anyway hard working. I think the Christian metal" label works for the listener who is a christian who wants to have security in what they are listening to so if it has 'Christian on it" they feel better about the whole deal because given thought and time who else does it work for in this age now as oppssed to the *0's and 90's when it worked for everyone?
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Throne of thorns on Sun May 01, 2016 5:30 pm

Andreas89 wrote:
Gorship wrote:
I find the comment so interesting from Mr. Sweet. "we are not a Christian rock band; we are a rock band comprised of Christians." , his reasoning. Doesnt like labels, as they can be limiting. I just disagree, you still have all the freedom to write what you want, people just know there will be no filthy communication or perverseness in your songs (Hopefully that's not a lot to ask from christians in a rock band?) 

a lot of it seems to come down to sales... which really just flat out dissapoints me. Money or (in my opinion) making it easier for people to find some music that isn't perverse.
this was a lot longer winded than I expected....let the hate mail commence.   No
No hatemail for you!

I'd just like to point out that it's highly unlikely that Stryper wants to avoid this tag for sales or anything. I mean, every metalhead who doesn't think about christianity when thinking about Stryper, has been living under a rock for quite some time Razz  So I think Sweet's reluctance has an honest foundation, no matter what you think about it.
Yeah i have to agree if stryper was after the fast cash they would just sell out full hog bye bye Christianity hello mansions they could you know and i believe they lived that kind of life style for a while and had a taste.....they are very bold about what they are about and everyone knows what they are about so he def has other reasons for not wanting that label placed on them..his intentions feel genuine to me based on this.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Stand against the wind on Sun May 01, 2016 5:57 pm

I think the whole thing is even much wider. We have a serious crise in creative arts of any kind. People don´t want to pay for it.

Web is full of crap you get for free so why bother to put a dollar/euro for it. This is a problem for writers, photographers, composers, musicians.

What comes to labeling. Don´t like it. When I was young, it was very important to me to know if someone is christian artist or not. Nowadays not anymore. Art is art and if the soul of the artist is revealed in the art I´m happy with it.

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Guest on Sun May 01, 2016 7:14 pm

this was a lot longer winded than I expected....let the hate mail commence.  
no hate mail Smile  Just an agreeance to respectfully disagree both musically and theologically...

lol You know which way I'm going! Some really good questions here in this thread that me think about the whole christian label thing. I used to be against it and I think it has limited quite a number of bands from becoming a house hold name think rez white cross white heart seventh angel even mortification particularly early stuff and others. So in this way it is not a great label to deem and not to mention financially. In the 80's and early 90's there was a productive market place for that Label "Christian metal" it was lucrative so much so that even as i hear it secular musicians who could not get a footing in the "secular" music world opted for the Christian label......I think if i am not mistaken rage of angels was a band much like this. I can see stypers view on it also from Gippers stand point and how it would limit them as a musician and moving forward but they pretty well anyway hard working. I think the Christian metal" label works for the listener who is a christian who wants to have security in what they are listening to so if it has 'Christian on it" they feel better about the whole deal because given thought and time who else does it work for in this age now as oppssed to the *0's and 90's when it worked for everyone



great post...I agree...what gets me is when an artist like Blackie Lawless becomes a christian and they put out a spiritually lyrical album and all of a sudden they are a "Christian Band" with a "Christian Album"...I wonder how many Christians go to WASP shows hoping to see a Christian band and hear said band playing alot of the older material? here is the setlist from WASP Golgotha tour...

On Your Knees/Inside the electric circus
The Real Me
L.O.V.E. Machine
Last Runaway
Crazy
Arena Of Pleasure
Miss You
Hellion/I Don't Need No Doctor
Golgotha
Wild Child
I Wanna Be Somebody

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Guest on Sun May 01, 2016 7:15 pm

Stand against the wind...what is the view of "Christian" metal In Your Country...What do metalheads there think..Is it a genre like in The USA or is it just music...

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by WildWorld on Sun May 01, 2016 7:55 pm

Maybe the Christian bands need to market themselves better. Why not try to get onto movie soundtracks for example? I myself discovered Skillet and 12 stones via them providing theme songs for WWE ppvs, why dont bands like Theocracy or Harmony or Diviner try to get on the soundtracks to major films like the Marvel films or the Star Wars films? Even getting played in the trailer might cause some interest (ie, "whats that awesome song i heard in the new black panther trailer?")

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by messiaen77 on Mon May 02, 2016 12:23 am

You know, marketing is a good point.  For all the bad stuff people think and say about Brandon Ebel (Tooth & Nail/Solid State/BEC), his deal to promote his labels' albums through Best Buy stores was great.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Gorship on Mon May 02, 2016 1:49 am

Apologies, I didn't mean to insinuate that stryper, in particular was in it for the cash. Just in general it seems to be about marketing. I wouldn't die on a hill for my stance on label or no label at the end of the day I just find it easier to look for bands that may be what I'm looking for, the theology of music and Christians role in music which is I guess what I kinda got into above (I have tendency to rabbit trail I'm sorry) and I know there's no debate on here but I would love to hear peoples thoughts in pm if they want, iron sharpens iron. All I would close my thoughts on this is that whatever is done, is for God's glory (1 cor 10:31). I do believe our world is hurting, and the gospel is what they need, and people today love music and use it almost to escape. So there is a huge spot for Christians to shine, label or no label.

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Stand against the wind on Mon May 02, 2016 6:24 am

Savage Amusement wrote:Stand against the wind...what is the view of "Christian" metal In Your Country...What do metalheads there think..Is it a genre like in The USA or is it just music...

It´s hard to answer. I kind of fell off the scene when I quit doing christian youth work. But if I had to say something, there is (or at least was) quite straight line between secular and christian metal bands. Those bands who´s members are christian, are straight forward christian bands. Like HB, Deuteronomium, KLS.. Of course there is christian musicians who are playing in secular bands, being professional or at least semi-professional musicians, but they seem not to have any christian themes in their music and don´t have too much noise of being "christian in the band". Of course there may be some exceptions that I just don´t know. If so, if someone knows better, please say it.

I checked out some bands and realized that many of those are defunct or running slow. HB did three concerts last year (and all of them outside Finland), Deuteronomium hasn´t done any gigs in 2-3 years. There was a Finnish christian metal forum that have almost died during last three years. We had a christian metal music store that quit business in january. My impression is that "scene" is not well.

But. Like I said earlier, I don´t like labeling any more. I listen to what I listen.. so there is the chance that I just don´t know it. Over all Finland is huge on metal. We have loads of people of all ages that love metal. We have bands and metal fests and high class metal acts visit us regurlarly. So anyone who just loves metal, is having great living here.

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Blake on Mon May 02, 2016 9:56 am

The main reason I am for the labels is because from my own experience, when I was younger I actually had a desire to find Christian music and was seeking. If at that time no one called themselves a "Christian band" then it would have made it quite difficult for me to locate any bands that fit that description.

Seek and you will find, at least that's the idea.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Wildcat on Mon May 02, 2016 12:16 pm

First of all, I'm not really sure that "Christian metal" was a fad that died in the 80s or 90s. There were never that many bands in the scene, and other than Stryper, they were all obscure compared to their secular counterparts even then. That's about the same situation we have today with both in the number of bands openly embracing the Christian label and their relative level of exposure. The only difference is that almost all of them are playing in genres that are currently popular rather than the glam/arena rock style that a lot of you here are more interested in. I really don't think much has changed.

On the secondary discussion about how to react to bands who try to distance themselves from the "Christian band" label, I take it case by case, but usually don't have a very strong reaction because I can understand both sides of the issue. 

In most cases of this controversy that I've seen, the band isn't actually disowning their faith. Rather, they're complaining about the tendency at least in American retailers to consider "Christian" to be a genre of music. I've seen this first hand in several stores that have a "Christian" section containing everything from the Gaithers to Becoming The Archetype. I can easily see how that would be terribly limiting for a metal or rock band in terms of gaining exposure outside the church should that be part of their goal, so I understand why some bands aren't thrilled about being labelled that way. I also completely understand the point raised by several of you that having the label makes it easier for you to find bands, especially if you feel convicted to only listen to music with explicitly Christian lyrics. I don't think it's an issue with any obvious right answer.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Throne of thorns on Mon May 02, 2016 5:12 pm

Wildcat wrote:First of all, I'm not really sure that "Christian metal" was a fad that died in the 80s or 90s. There were never that many bands in the scene, and other than Stryper, they were all obscure compared to their secular counterparts even then. That's about the same situation we have today with both in the number of bands openly embracing the Christian label and their relative level of exposure. The only difference is that almost all of them are playing in genres that are currently popular rather than the glam/arena rock style that a lot of you here are more interested in. I really don't think much has changed.

On the secondary discussion about how to react to bands who try to distance themselves from the "Christian band" label, I take it case by case, but usually don't have a very strong reaction because I can understand both sides of the issue. 

In most cases of this controversy that I've seen, the band isn't actually disowning their faith. Rather, they're complaining about the tendency at least in American retailers to consider "Christian" to be a genre of music. I've seen this first hand in several stores that have a "Christian" section containing everything from the Gaithers to Becoming The Archetype. I can easily see how that would be terribly limiting for a metal or rock band in terms of gaining exposure outside the church should that be part of their goal, so I understand why some bands aren't thrilled about being labelled that way. I also completely understand the point raised by several of you that having the label makes it easier for you to find bands, especially if you feel convicted to only listen to music with explicitly Christian lyrics. I don't think it's an issue with any obvious right answer.
a lot has changed since the 80's and 90's with christian music and secular music as a whole I mean drastically changed. Those days christian rock and metal was at its peak during those times and as i mentioned before it was lucritive money is the source of what survives and lives and what does not in this world harsh but true.... and never since has it been the same, pretty much like grunge with the seattle scene gone forever never to return days have changed and music is less important than ever. The christian tag just has no validation today even christian book stores are shutting down everywhere and christian record labels.
In the 90's everything was doing extremely well metal, underground, mainstream rock and Christian music all had a culture and vibe to offer it's punters. I think the only people that it matters to are those that want to find christian bands that call themselves christian what they don't realize is that it just carries no weight anymore in just about all departments. we live in the information age now video games and movies that move at fast pace and have stunning visual and audio effects are the catch of the day........so many super hero movies etc most of us here will be from gen x and y so we are old like everything else that moves with the information age christian metal has to find it's place again just like secular rock and metal as people figure out how this thing is going to go.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by sentient 6 on Mon May 09, 2016 3:44 pm

...how do you guys feel about " Christian " worship music ? Or should it be simply a worship band with Christians in it ? Monkey Biz

...what about " Christian " ska ? " Christian " rockabilly ?
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Stender on Mon May 09, 2016 3:59 pm

Honestly, Christian music as a whole is unpopular these days probably because there is no exciting new music coming out. In the 80s and 90s there were serious Christian artists making music that people were excited about, and not always just a copy of a popular secular band. Whens the last time you heard an artist like Steve Taylor, Rez, or Vengeance Rising?

Also I think there was a certain inclusive perspective about the ccm scene at the time due to modern christian churches own version of the PMRC that gave a certain level of 'hype' by coming down on artists like Stryper or Amy Grant or whoever for their image/sound/personal life where today, modern christians are generally more accepting of secular pop culture and how christian artists relate to it. That hype whether it helped or hindered sales, made it more of a 'fad' probably.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Blake on Mon May 09, 2016 5:09 pm

No genre of music ever "dies", some genres may take a backseat for awhile but they are never truly dead as long as artists are still releasing music.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by messiaen77 on Mon May 09, 2016 7:43 pm

sentient 6 wrote:...how do you guys feel about " Christian " worship music ? Or should it be simply a worship band with Christians in it ? Monkey Biz

...what about " Christian " ska ? " Christian " rockabilly ?
1.  Regarding "Christian" worship music--I've never heard that, but if I saw it I would really think it is for practical reasons.  Worship music is utilitarian music, music that has a concrete purpose.  If I am responsible for selecting worship music at the First Second Coming of Christ Baptist Church I'm not going to need songs that openly praise Krishna, Oinari, Ra, or Neptune.   I have other issues with the worship music industry that are beyond the scope of this question, but that is for another time and place.

2.  In my opinion labeling any genre of music as "Christian" whatever serves two purposes:  removing the guesswork for good church-goin' Christian people about whether or not the music of X band or on Q album is going to "appropriate" for them to listen to and removing the guesswork for all the other folks about whether or not they want to buy it.  I'm beyond sick of the "Christian band or Christians in a band" discussion/debate/issue and we can call them all tuna or salmon bands for all I care.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by messiaen77 on Mon May 09, 2016 7:43 pm

Blake wrote:No genre of music ever "dies", some genres may take a backseat for awhile but they are never truly dead as long as artists are still releasing music.
...or as long as people still have the means and desire to listen to it.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by alldatndensum on Mon May 09, 2016 9:27 pm

2.  In my opinion labeling any genre of music as "Christian" whatever serves two purposes:  removing the guesswork for good church-goin' Christian people about whether or not the music of X band or on Q album is going to "appropriate" for them to listen to and removing the guesswork for all the other folks about whether or not they want to buy it.  I'm beyond sick of the "Christian band or Christians in a band" discussion/debate/issue and we can call them all tuna or salmon bands for all I care.

That pretty well sums it up.  The tag "Christian music" is going to get slapped on any product where the artists openly sing about their faith in Christ.  "Christians in a band" is what the artists are going to claim to help with more commercial appeal.  Its a vicious cycle that just never stops as we rehash it over and over again as to whether there really is such a real thing as "Christian music" or whether its just music with "Christ focused lyrics" or whatever the next tag will be.  It is tiring, isn't it?
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by sentient 6 on Tue May 10, 2016 3:01 pm

messiaen77 wrote:
sentient 6 wrote:...how do you guys feel about " Christian " worship music ? Or should it be simply a worship band with Christians in it ? Monkey Biz

...what about " Christian " ska ? " Christian " rockabilly ?
1.  Regarding "Christian" worship music--I've never heard that, but if I saw it I would really think it is for practical reasons.  Worship music is utilitarian music, music that has a concrete purpose.  If I am responsible for selecting worship music at the First Second Coming of Christ Baptist Church I'm not going to need songs that openly praise Krishna, Oinari, Ra, or Neptune.   I have other issues with the worship music industry that are beyond the scope of this question, but that is for another time and place.

2.  In my opinion labeling any genre of music as "Christian" whatever serves two purposes:  removing the guesswork for good church-goin' Christian people about whether or not the music of X band or on Q album is going to "appropriate" for them to listen to and removing the guesswork for all the other folks about whether or not they want to buy it.  I'm beyond sick of the "Christian band or Christians in a band" discussion/debate/issue and we can call them all tuna or salmon bands for all I care.

I was just being a bit facetious.

Essentially, I got no problem with a band as a whole identifying themselves officially  with Christianity. Much in the same way people as individuals identify themselves with Christ in this world...so can bands I guess. If they do, all I ask personally is that their lyrics, worldview and mission reflect it. A lot of stuff that markets themselves ( maybe its the labels ) as " Christian " I say no thanks or I listen ignoring the label.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by sentient 6 on Tue May 10, 2016 3:08 pm

messiaen77 wrote:[  Worship music is utilitarian music, music that has a concrete purpose.

I think metal bands can have the same purpose. If you write songs that reflect a Christian worldview, encourages other Christians and purposely gives the Gospel to people...then you are a Christian band. Whether your band plays ska, country, folk, or metal. So of the other stuff out there in the Christian rock world ( as you and others said ) may be plain ol' marketing.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by messiaen77 on Tue May 10, 2016 3:09 pm

sentient 6 wrote:
messiaen77 wrote:
sentient 6 wrote:...how do you guys feel about " Christian " worship music ? Or should it be simply a worship band with Christians in it ? Monkey Biz

...what about " Christian " ska ? " Christian " rockabilly ?
1.  Regarding "Christian" worship music--I've never heard that, but if I saw it I would really think it is for practical reasons.  Worship music is utilitarian music, music that has a concrete purpose.  If I am responsible for selecting worship music at the First Second Coming of Christ Baptist Church I'm not going to need songs that openly praise Krishna, Oinari, Ra, or Neptune.   I have other issues with the worship music industry that are beyond the scope of this question, but that is for another time and place.

2.  In my opinion labeling any genre of music as "Christian" whatever serves two purposes:  removing the guesswork for good church-goin' Christian people about whether or not the music of X band or on Q album is going to "appropriate" for them to listen to and removing the guesswork for all the other folks about whether or not they want to buy it.  I'm beyond sick of the "Christian band or Christians in a band" discussion/debate/issue and we can call them all tuna or salmon bands for all I care.

I was just being a bit facetious.

Essentially, I got no problem with a band as a whole identifying themselves officially  with Christianity. Much in the same way people as individuals identify themselves with Christ in this world...so can bands I guess. If they do, all I ask personally is that their lyrics, worldview and mission reflect it. A lot of stuff that markets themselves ( maybe its the labels ) as " Christian " I say no thanks or I listen ignoring the label.
Maybe I came across as harsher than I intended.  Yes, I have no problem with a band made up of Christ-followers writing songs that point to Christ in some way wanting to be called a Christian band and I have no problem with that same band not wanting to be called a Christian band.  What I'm tired of is the fans and spectators sitting in judgement over these people because of the decision.  And I would absolutely agree that if you are going to wear the label, live up to it.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by sentient 6 on Tue May 10, 2016 3:13 pm

messiaen77 wrote:[ What I'm tired of is the fans and spectators sitting in judgement over these people because of the decision.  

I take it all on a case by case scenario. Regardless of the marketing or what the bands themselves say, I go by the content of the lyrics.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by d@v!d on Tue May 10, 2016 6:27 pm

Savage Amusement wrote:Could it be that Christian metal was a fad in the 80s and 90s and is now really just and underground genre? Alot of "Christian" bands these days hate being "Christian" and are moving away from it...They hate the tag and are moving into the secular arena...Maybe these "christian" metal music stores are dying because "Christian" metal is dying..Seems like these days its ok to be a christian in a band but not so acceptable to be a christian band...Stryper has had thoughts on this and even Pastor Bob has commented on this..agreeing with Stryper Shocked  ...What do ya'll think..
It's hard to find people who are spiritual enough to put their faith into their music but not too spiritual to know better not to play metal.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by messiaen77 on Thu May 12, 2016 9:20 am

Huh?
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Chaz Bond on Mon May 23, 2016 3:07 am

Oh my what a huge subject here.. If you do not know who I am I will tell you. I am the vocalist of BioGenesis and a new band called Letters To The Blind. I was also the front man for Jacobs Dream for 10 years.
My thoughts on this topic are many and honestly I could take up this entire thread on the subject. I will try to sum up my thoughts as best I can from an artist point of view.. I grew up with Christian Metal as it is often called and I do understand that so e of you like to know exactly where band A stands on Christ etc..I get that...and truthfully I think that there is a place for that.

There are many parts to the ministry...much like military branches..some bands are on the front lines and are immediately known to and hated by the enemy. Some bands are like the navy seals...fans kinda figure out over time that there are Christians in that band. Then you have those like Dave Mustaine who became a believer..never declared Megadeth a Christian band yet touches on his faith and writes about the world through his eyes .the eyes of a believer.

I know it's difficult to understand but let's look at it this way...imagine a friend introduces you to a new band and says to you...these guys are a Musslim band but they are really good. Some of u may not care but I believe many of u would not find that appealing. We are living in an atheistic society that basically pretends that it has proven that God does not exist. I never call Bio a Christian band...I'll tell u why...what I believe is and always will be a part of who I am as a man. Therefore it deeply influancea what comes from my soul...am I a believer? Absolutely and I have no quams telling that to any atheist or Satanic priest. However I want God to work through me and through my music as he wishes and I have absolutely seen it happen countless times.
Here's the deal..Kurt Warner was a quarterback... Kurt Warner is a Christian. Kurt Warner was never called a Christian Quarterback. Yet I know he touched the lives of many just by being who he is and allowing God to shine his light and work through him. We don't need titles. We need to simply be who we are no matter our job title or music genre or how we dress. I never saw a Christian janitor or a Christian warehouse guy. Just be who u are no matter where you are and let God work through you. I believe the last days have begun...all this being said...the new BioGenesis album A Decadence Divine will be bold and direct and in your face like nothing I've ever written before....God bless you all..

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by alldatndensum on Mon May 23, 2016 8:43 am

Chaz, I've read those types of comments before many times over the years.  It makes sense to me now.  I get what you are saying and I agree.  I don't know why it has never clicked before.  Maybe it is who has said it or how.  I don't know.  I just know that this makes sense today.  Thanks for sharing that.
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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Chaz Bond on Mon May 23, 2016 12:27 pm

There is this guy where I work. He having no idea what my stance is started telling me about his struggle on wether or not he believes in God. By this time I've earned his trust and respect like 3 years ago. When I open up about my views he is a bit surprised but really listens with an open mind. Sadly had I walked around with a short that said Christian shipper all the time I likely would be pre judged and even avoided during such conversations. While it is sad it is true. If your atheist friend says bro check out this atheist metal band...how do u feel? Probably a lot like they feel when u say check out this Anand that is named after something that you are convinced is a fairytale. I don't call it Christian Metal. I call it freedom of speech.

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Re: Christian Metal?

Post by Guest on Tue May 24, 2016 10:26 pm

I don't call it Christian Metal. I call it freedom of speech.

Metal 1

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