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Secular Metal Lyrics

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What level of secular metal lyrics do you accept?

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Post by ThomasEversole Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:30 pm

I'd like to preface by saying, please PLEASE don't turn this topic of lyric acceptance as a morality/spirituality issue to point at others.

Instead, please discuss your preference and reasoning why.  Only engage someone else's "level of lyric acceptance" if they engage you first.  Don't think I'm trying to preach - I'm saying this so I can be accountable too and help maintain the peace.  ;P

I think most of us can agree that this is in the realm of personal conviction?

Back in high school, I avoided ALL secular metal and exclusively listened to Christian metal.  I pretty much had the idea that whether the song was praising Satan or singing about tshirts and beer, that it was applicable to "If you're not for Me you're against Me" (Matthew 12:30) and "because you're lukewarm, you're about to be spit out" (Revalations 3:16) and all of it shared the same heat from hell.

I'd say 2001 that changed.  ...and not that my faith wavered at all, but because I all of a sudden saw music as more media/entertainment and not a spiritual tool IN GENERAL anymore.  I no longer weighed ALL music (made it synonymous) with what I believe.

Obviously I still have my spiritual music.  As strange as it sounds, I spin my own Orationem discs and "pray" along with them.  Its very spiritually "fulfilling" (is that a pun?  LOL)

I think my "change" had to do with WHY I saw ALL (100%) of music as HAVING to be synonymous with my faith and everything else cast out of my life.  Even in highschool, I watched Xfiles every Sunday night.  On that show, people would get shot.  There were demonic allusions.  There was immoral behavior.  Deception.  Yet, THAT didn't convict me...  but if that content was in a song?

I would have recoiled from it as if it was a hot flame.

I guess one day in 2001, that didn't make sense to me anymore.

Regarding my lyric acceptance, I thoroughly enjoy a number of satanic, anti-Christian bands.  I think that ties in with my media/entertainment preferences have become more....  brutal? ...in the last few years.  If any normal person loaded my Netflix profile, they would think there's something wrong with me.  Its like 95% gore/horror - 5% whatever Leslie Neilson was in.  (Spy Hard, Naked Gun, etc.)

Of COURSE I don't subscribe to satanic/anti-Christian lyrics in alignment with where my heart is in Christ.  ...just like I don't subscribe behaviors in horror movies as a template for how to live my life.  Its fantasy, and for whatever reason, I LIKE to be shocked and freaked out, whether by someone "dressed up" on a screen or someone "dressed up" playing harsh music.

Thoughts?  Opinions?
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Post by exo Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:42 pm

It's all band to band, day to day with me.

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Post by Guest Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:01 pm

I listen to anything that sounds good and feels good to me!

Sometimes I will feel bad about something if it is too satanic, so I will not listen to that any longer. But I am very liberal with what I can listen to! I listen to Cradle of Filth and Burzum. Emperor and Satyricon.

However, for some reason I felt kinda weird when listening to Mayhem, so I stopped listening to them. Same with Mercyful Fate. I was listening to Mercyful Fate once and it just really rubbed me the wrong way. Seemed to be making fun of Jesus, so I stopped listening to Mercyful Fate. I am no longer a fan of that band.

Now I can listen to Slayer and Cradle of Filth all day long. Bad lyrics, but neither band is truly satanic.

I guess you could say I draw the line with the truly satanic, but I voted the last choice, because I do listen to a lot of stuff that would probably be considered satanic by many.

I love positive lyrics though. My first choice is positive and uplifting ... whether that be Christian or secular. To me there is not really a difference between Christian or secular. I listen to all things I feel fine about.

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Post by Guest Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:25 pm

I chose the last one...i dont care much about the lyrics...except actually christian bands that get preachy or promote theologys i dont believe..
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Post by WildWorld Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:18 pm

The only lyrics i avoid are anti-Christian/satanic stuff (and if the whole point of the band is that like venom or immolation, then forget it, even with slayer im very choosy about which songs i listen to), drug-promoting stuff, political stuff that "picks a side" (at least WASP and Megadeth point out whats wrong with both parties), or racist stuff. When it comes to secular lyrics i prefer fantasy stuff (paticularly medieval stuff) or more positive lyrics.  However, it should be noted that for the most part i judge bands on a song-by-song basis, im not going to avoid GNR entirely just because of One in a Million.


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Post by exo Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:20 pm

Been thinking a bit.  i don't have a problem with lyrics that are anti-religious criticism, because I absolutely understand it.  Kreator comes to mind.  I DO have problems listening to projections of hatred towards God, or professions of faith in the occult. While I love the music, I can not listen to Dissection or Watain.

I actually have a tougher time listening to sexually oriented lyrics than anti-religious stuff.  It sends my mind to problem areas for me, so I don't listen to much hair/sleaze/glam as a result.

This is a wonderfully thought provoking subject, Thomas.

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"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
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"You must be," said the Cat, or you wouldn’t have come here."


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Post by Guest Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:53 pm

However, for some reason I felt kinda weird when listening to Mayhem, so I stopped listening to them

Interesting, I have a friend who saw Mayhem live a couple years back, he's not a Christian, and said he felt like he was in the presence of hell when they were on. That's the only band he ever said that about, and we've seen quite a few together, including Marduk and others cut from the same cloth.  I got nothing from Marduk in that weird unsettling way. I've found mayhem a bit unsettling myself, and dissection is a band that I've never even checked out just based on interviews I have read in the past, the guy seemed legitimately in a dark place, like it wasn't just  an image to sell records.  Anymore, I steer away from the satanic bands altogether, and also ones that are just too into murder, horror, shock value etc. I much prefer bands that tell stories of war such as Bolt Thrower or Hail of Bullets, or Viking themes, whatever. But satanic and stuff along the lines of cannibal corpse is just too much.

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Post by Hardcore Christian Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:06 am

I chose the second one.

Even though I basically only listen to Christian artists, I do listen to the occasional Secular artist.

98% of what I own is Christian so, Id say I fall between 1 and 2.

Anyway, I have no desire to listen to anything that has lyrics that are anti-God, or hate/immorally filled.

I dont disagree with listening to Secular, but I myself enjoy Christian bands way more because I know we share the same faith.

The other 2% of my collection thats not "Christian" includes: Journey, Van Halen, Lion, Dragonforce, and Johnny Cash alien

Whenever I do listen to something that's not Christian, I feel guilt. Its just personal conviction, to stay at a higher standard for myself, my heart, and mind.

Oh and when it comes to profanity, it depends on the tense because I own the occasional Christian artist that does say such things.
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Post by ThomasEversole Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:43 am

exo wrote:This is a wonderfully thought provoking subject, Thomas.

Thanks!

exo wrote:
I actually have a tougher time listening to sexually oriented lyrics than anti-religious stuff.  It sends my mind to problem areas for me, so I don't listen to much hair/sleaze/glam as a result.

I have a very VERY sick sense of humor.  Definitely the sick things I laugh at, I would never endorse or be serious about - but porngrind bands crack me up lyrically.  I mean, a song called "She eats her tampons out of my sh*t" is so ridiculous, I can't imagine someone with a sick sense of humor NOT laughing at a song about that.  

The imagery is a whole other story though - and that's what keeps me from listening to it outside of youtube (where *most* of it is censored).  So many bands in that genre have at least hardcore XXX or explicit artwork.  

Hardcore Christian wrote:
Whenever I do listen to something that's not Christian, I feel guilt. Its just personal conviction, to stay at a higher standard for myself, my heart, and mind.

I definitely understand and respect that.  I've been there.
I admin a Christian black metal forum and quite a few gents there tread the secular black metal board carefully, and caution regarding conviction is a good thing.  

I definitely don't want to spend my time trying to convince them/anyone to not have that conviction...  That's wrong in my book.
...instead, I'd rather spend my energy on finding a band that is neutral or wholesome that they can add to their library!

When in doubt, there's always the instrumental/no lyrics at all card to play.  
Yeah, vocals certainly add "that" level of enjoyment to metal, but something about no words/lyrics whatsoever that puts us all on the same level.

Like this video.  Can't imagine it tripping anyone up, unless you headbang too hard.  ;P

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Post by Follower of Jesus Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:06 pm

I chose the 4th option. I listen to both Christian and secular. If I can't understand the lyrics I seek them out. If I can't find them and don't hear anything that bothers me, I go for it. I steer clear of anything that goes against the faith.
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Post by sentient 6 Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:08 pm

I chose the 4th one as well. But it still doesn't quite express my feelings on the matter.

There are a couple observations that i'd like to express though. We live in culture that is HIGHLY entertainment driven, and I believe that helps too add confusion and controversy to how and why we choose what we choose. We as a culture have so much free time and are constantly craving entertainment, that that, sometimes is too much of a driving force on our choices. This would obviously speak to movies we watch and books, as well. This is just one of the things that I've reflected on as I make choices for myself in this regard.

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Post by Guest Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:42 am

5th option for me, although veering towards the 6th. Used to pretty much listen to Christian stuff exclusively.

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Post by oldschooldoom Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:11 am

Nothing will stop me from listening to great music
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Post by Guest Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:38 am

oldschooldoom wrote:Nothing will stop me from listening to great music






Exactly!!! cheers

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Post by sadvader Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:05 pm

I went for option 5. Some of my favourite bands are secular but I'm quite sensitive to lyrical content. Anything the mocks Christianity, Christians and above all speaks bad about Christ and the gospel is off limits for me. I don't want anybody to speak dirty about my saviour.
One aspect is very important for anything that I consume media-wise: I'm sure that anything that is said in our presence can have power over us. You might answer that Jesus is watching over us and he protects us from these things and of course you are right. But: The Bible tells us that we ain't to try God. Things that are bad for us we should avoid. Yes, mistakes and stumbling happens - a lot.  Therefore I see it critical to purposely surrender ourselfes to texts that work against God. Even if we don't care what the lyrics of certain bands are they have a power. We should not underestimate that power and we should not  be careless. That's why I'm very picky about bands and lyrics. There are many bands I'd love to listen to but I simply can't. But that's just my opinion.
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Post by sentient 6 Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:53 pm

One other thing that I've reflected on over the years was how my entertainment choices are impacted by the Holy Spirits call to holiness. If holiness is being set apart from the way the unbelieving world thinks and acts, does that reflect on the music and movies I partake of ? If I am encouraged by the Word of God to not partake of evil and sin in general, why would I believe music glorifying those things would be acceptable ?

Now I view myself just as much a " music " addict as a addict to alcohol. I know some kinds of music are not beneficial to me just like intoxication is not beneficial to me. Sometimes I get intoxicated to gratify myself and sometimes I listen to bands to gratify myself in my moments of weakness. I know Slayers Hell Awaits and Reign in Blood do not enhance my mind and heart as a Christian. And yet, I get such carnal satisfaction from them as a art form and entertainment.

In general though, I have felt that I want the Holy Spirit to have every part of my being. And this includes my heart and my mind. I find that when I listen to too much secular music in general, that my love and obedience for God are " cooled " down. And I've found that secular music usually sets me up to temptations such as alcohol abuse. Secular music has done nothing to help me in preparing my heart and mind for holiness in my life. But God is gracious and patient with me as still live in this unredeemed body and in this unredeemed world.
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Post by Guest Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:28 pm

S6's post made me think for a moment...Do you guys think that whatever theology/doctrine a person holds would have an effect on their answer to this poll? (When I say doctrine/theology I mean the way one views God, the holy spirit, Christ, Obedience, holiness, morality, the Bible, sin and forgiveness...) It  doesn't mean any of us are better or more holy (or more lost)..just different...

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Post by Friday13th Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:11 am

Yeah, sentient's is a good post. I would say the single biggest factor for opting out of music is if it causes me to sin. Idolatry is a sin obviously, but that one's hard to no matter what music I hear. Maybe it's slightly easier to avoid if the music is Christian and slightly more if it's worship. Music that is blatantly against God...hm...I don't enjoy the idea, but I'll listen to it if its thought provoking enough. "Dear God" by XTC is a good example. So, my answer is somewhere between 5 and 6 then, with some anti-Christian music being okay but the effects of taking in these ideas strongly monitored.
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Post by ThomasEversole Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:38 am

I like the comparison of a metal addict to an addict to alcoholism.  Obviously, I wouldn't think there would be a literal physical dependence on "metal", but the obsession could be very similar.

...I'd like to expound on that analogy.

Every once in a while, there's a story that floats around about metal causing X tragedy.  I remember a big ta-do a while ago about someone blowing their brains out with a shotgun "because Judas Priest said it in their lyrics".  The spree killing at Columbine years ago was because both of those kids listened to "evil" music.  Here locally, a few years ago, there were two teens found dead from an apparent suicide and they had an Evanescence song blaring in the room on repeat, and people blamed the song because of its lyrical content.  Bob Dole has publicly boycotted Cannibal Corpse deeming them unfit for society.

Its the same thing but on a smaller scale than homicide/suicide, but fingers have been pointed towards faith being destroyed because of unholy music.  

A little bit of common sense would see though, that if lyrics suggest suicide or directly cause loss of faith, and there are thousands and thousands of listeners, wouldn't there be thousands and thousands of people blowing their brains out or losing their faith?

Back to the alcohol analogy.  I'm a recovering alcoholic, over 8 years sober.  I still go to "those" meetings and work a 12 step program.  I've seen a handful of people come and go that pretty much turn the meetings into an "alcohol haters club" - like booze is the bad guy in the world, and booze ruined their life.

...but alcohol would just sit in a bottle for hundreds of years if no one drank it.  Its inanimate.  Its not going to just smash into somebody on the street and force itself down their throat.  I myself realize that its not alcohol that's the problem, its me when I drink it.  There are millions of people who have NO consequences with alcohol.

Back to metal in comparison.  Its inanimate as well.  I feel like some Christians put music lyrics on a pedestal a few pegs down from scripture itself.  ...at least, give those lyrics almost that much weight in their heart.  ...when really, its just some person's words to beat and rhythm.  Its just sounds and is not going to MAKE you do anything, unless you "drink it" and "have a problem with it".

I used to have the mindset that anyone who listened to (and especially enjoyed) something that "speaks" against my Christian faith, then darkness has a hold on them.
Not trying to rock the boat, but now, a very VERY small part of me has the mindset that if some random dude's non-Christian (whatever the extent) lyrics have enough "power" to "cool off" your faith, then you've got a major hole in your faith-armor. (like previously mentioned, the problem is not the metal/alcohol, its YOU when you "drink" it)

Just being honest, and luckily, that very small part isn't the whole of my opinion on this.
The much bigger part of me says that either one of those isn't exactly correct, and conviction is tailored to each brain, and how they categorize each item.  

Myself, I categorize alcohol as being off limits and something I should abstain from completely.  Its too easy for me to abuse, I've drank the fun out of it, and there are too many consequences when I drink.  If a band is awesome but has "evil" lyrics, its still a good listen for me, because I'm not looking to it for spiritual food.  I have the same "this is cool" switch on as when I watch zombies get shot in the head.

Someone else might enjoy alcohol in moderation and have no real consequences from what they drink and have no desire to abuse it.  In the meantime, what they read/hear from music, might bother/insult/offend and cause spiritual consequences. Watching a movie where a zombie gets shot in the head might also be traumatizing.

Its just as incorrect for me to say its wrong for them to drink when I've got the conviction, as it is for them to say its wrong to for me listen to satanic music when they've got the conviction.

That's how I see it though.  Take what you need and leave the rest.
I fully agree and respect if you disagree with this. (if that makes sense)
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Post by CrimsonWarrior Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:30 pm

I chose category four, which is that I try to avoid things that disagree with my faith, though I can listen to stuff that I don't know the lyrics to. However, that's only sometimes true.

I tend to feel more convicted with extreme metal than with stuff like thrash for whatever reason. I know that Metallica has had some slightly anti-religious stuff in their lyrics (Leper Messiah, though the song seems to be anti-televangelism to me), but I feel absolutely fine with listening to them for whatever reason. Swearing in thrash doesn't bother me as much as it does in other genres either.

Usually, if I don't know the lyrics to a secular band, I'll avoid it, even if the music is very good. However, I have some exceptions. I can think of three off the top of my head: Wolves in the Throne Room, Black Landscapes, and Gaoth Anair.

So I guess I kinda fall mostly into category three and partially into categories four and five, so I just picked four.
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Post by KaramKaram Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:58 pm

Savage Amusement wrote:I chose the last one...i dont care much about the lyrics...except actually christian bands that get preachy or promote theologys i dont believe..
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I chose the last one as well, almost same reasoning. I don't care if it is too preachy thou, or too satanic, for me it is only music, if I like it I will listen to it, when something bothers me I just let it die by not listening to it again and that is
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Post by exo Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:13 pm

The I've discovered over the years that bands, especially many earlier "Christian metal" bands strike me as too "try hard", and can't listen to a lot of them.  If they can be rated on the "JPM" scale (that's the "mentions of Jesus per minute" that used to jokingly be referred to), my brain interprets it as "forced/false", and it bothers me to the point that i have just as much trouble listening to it as I do Behemoth or the like.

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"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, or you wouldn’t have come here."


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Post by Machine Fish Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:51 pm

I filter what I listen to pretty carefully, but I do listen to some bands that maybe considered satanic or anti-christian. If you include Slayer and groups like Testament or Exodus, but I really only go into it based on a song or mood based reasoning. I try to be careful to listen to my conscience as much as I can too. Once I get a check in my spirit, I stop. Some Slayer goes way too far in my opinion.

One thing I try to keep in mind is to understand their point of view, and possibly how I can find a way to help someone understand mine, by being able to relate to them.

Anyways, my personal practice is I stay away from bands who use their music to preach total violence, or complete hatred of someone else. Or music that is extremely sexualized. I'm trying not to step on any toes here, so, I'll leave it at that.
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Post by Guest Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:47 pm

exo wrote:The I've discovered over the years that bands, especially many earlier "Christian metal" bands strike me as too "try hard", and can't listen to a lot of them.  If they can be rated on the "JPM" scale (that's the "mentions of Jesus per minute" that used to jokingly be referred to), my brain interprets it as "forced/false", and it bothers me to the point that i have just as much trouble listening to it as I do Behemoth or the like.




Totally agree with you bro! Too 'religious' is just as offensive to me as too satanic. Good post!



Also, Thomas, that was a very good post too. I agree with what you are saying. For some ... it might be sin to listen to some of the music you and I do. However, for us ... we have a different calling I think.

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Post by alldatndensum Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:53 am

Even though I basically only listen to Christian artists, I do listen to the occasional Secular artist.

98% of what I own is Christian so, Id say I fall between 1 and 2.

Anyway, I have no desire to listen to anything that has lyrics that are anti-God, or hate/immorally filled.

I dont disagree with listening to Secular, but I myself enjoy Christian bands way more because I know we share the same faith.

The other 2% of my collection thats not "Christian" includes: Journey, Van Halen, Lion, Dragonforce, and Johnny Cash Secular Metal Lyrics Alien

Whenever I do listen to something that's not Christian, I feel guilt. Its just personal conviction, to stay at a higher standard for myself, my heart, and mind.

My list of bands would be different, but this is me nowadays.  I've been seeking out some of my old bands like Kiss, Warrant, Poison, Nelson, Motley Crue, etc.  I balance this by listening to far more Christian lyrics than these guys, though.
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