I believe there is a spiritual problem here on the CMR.

alldatndensum wrote:Just the fact that we can't agree and the thread feels like a powder keg about to ignite tells me that we are not ready for that which is being asked.

As a 14 year veteran and someone who spent time for a number of years as staff, just putting more rules won't keep the drama down.  A public forum attracts people from all walks of life and the internet gives people a forum where they don't have to hide.  They feel safe behind the keyboard.  That creates drama and even monsters.  It has happened here over and over and over.  I've lost a lot of friends.  I've even been the cause of some problems.  I can admit that.  However, people will not police themselves and it will get out of hand.  AGAIN.  We don't learn from our mistakes as humans and we will walk that ground again.

Start it back up again if you want, mods and admins.  I won't be going in there.  It is just a fight waiting to happen, and it will.

messiaen77 wrote:I'd like to go back to D@vid's original post.

I'm not sure I'd call the problem spiritual at its root, but it definitely has spiritual implications.  It is not a problem limited to this board, it is a problem that is rampant in society.  Someone on up the comments already made that point.  I believe it is rooted in fear.  We live in a time when there is so much uncertainty that we tend to cling to those things we hold as Truth and feel threatened when those things come under fire.  Whether it is a theology, an ideology, or a particular leader, we have come to identify with those things we hold dear and consider them an extension of ourselves because they provide security and comfort.  So I understand what Thomas is saying about Joyce Meyer (and in retrospect what Aaron had said previously about Joel Osteen).  I want to say something about this that I have said before, but this time more rationally and less emotionally.  We can never control what other people think or say or do, the only thing we can control is how we react to it.  D@vid talked about maturity, and that reminds me of what Paul said:  "When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, and I reasoned like a child.  But when I became a man, I put those childish ways behind me."  As a society (and this board as a subset of that society), I think the problem is that we are carrying those childish ways into adulthood.  I see it when people want to control what college professors teach in their classes because God forbid they are ever exposed to a new or different idea.  I see it when groups of people demand that images and icons of the past be removed or covered up because it makes them uncomfortable rather than using those images as a reminder of what has been and to strengthen our resolve to not return to that.  I see it when people who have different political ideas would rather resort to namecalling and character attacks than actually discussing those differences.  I see it when people default to using violence to solve their problems rather than trying to work things out in other ways.  I see it people who can't just let things go, but have to respond to every slight--real or perceived.  We are scared, and when we are afraid, we seek safety and security and try to shut out anything that makes us feel otherwise.  I get that and I feel that.  I guess what I'm beating around the bush saying is that I disagree that "we all have attained maturity that we can keep each other in check".  If that was true, then it would be easy to be a moderator.  Some of you may be feeling singled out by what I'm writing, and I promise you I am not pointing fingers at anyone.  I am speaking as much to myself as I am any other person.

Here's the other thing about fear:  God's love casts out fear.  Yes, we have a lot of divisions on this board, but that is because we have a lot of different people.  Politically we have people who are super conservative and people who are pretty daggone liberal and middle of the roaders like myself.  Theologically we have Reformed folks, free grace folks, Evangelicals, Progressives, Catholics, Pentecostals, Holiness, Wesleyans, and people who just say screw it all I just love Jesus.  Not to mention the people who aren't even Christian.  We've got people in all walks of life.  The Word of God divides, but it isn't divisive.  That's on us.  What we need is a whole lot more of God's love in this joint.  I'll be honest:  I hate when people come here and start talking all kinds of trash about Obama as a person.  Not because I support him--he wasn't my 1st, 2nd, or 854th choice for President--but because God's love isn't in it.  And surely saying "I'm not going to buy the new Tourniquet album because because I don't like all of the animal rights lyrics" is enough and we don't need to berate Ted because he believes so deeply in this.  We seem too forgetful that our call isn't to speak the truth, it is to speak the truth IN LOVE.  I'm not talking the hippie-dippie "it's all cool because we have love" kinda thing, I'm talking about the attitude of our hearts.  I believe there are some who feel passionately that WoF/prosperity/whatever teachers are fleecing the flock and are doing the work of Satan and they speak out against them because they genuinely do not want anyone to fall prey to them.  There are others who feel that they have been ministered to greatly by those same ministers.  Instead of duking it out, how about we just leave it at stating your thoughts and allowing the Holy Spirit to do its work?  Just a thought.

d@v!d wrote:

alldatndensum wrote:Just the fact that we can't agree and the thread feels like a powder keg about to ignite tells me that we are not ready for that which is being asked.

As a 14 year veteran and someone who spent time for a number of years as staff, just putting more rules won't keep the drama down.  A public forum attracts people from all walks of life and the internet gives people a forum where they don't have to hide.  They feel safe behind the keyboard.  That creates drama and even monsters.  It has happened here over and over and over.  I've lost a lot of friends.  I've even been the cause of some problems.  I can admit that.  However, people will not police themselves and it will get out of hand.  AGAIN.  We don't learn from our mistakes as humans and we will walk that ground again.

Start it back up again if you want, mods and admins.  I won't be going in there.  It is just a fight waiting to happen, and it will.

Again, I'm not vying for the reopening of the TR necesarily. I mentioned it as it is symbolic of the freedom to discuss topic in the light of a Christian perspective, something that can't happen here now. It doesn't matter if there is contention or not, if it gets too religious, it closes.

BTW, I don't think this thread is any kind of powder keg. There are disagreements and a bit of emotion but everything is civil.

alldatndensum wrote:

d@v!d wrote:

alldatndensum wrote:Just the fact that we can't agree and the thread feels like a powder keg about to ignite tells me that we are not ready for that which is being asked.

As a 14 year veteran and someone who spent time for a number of years as staff, just putting more rules won't keep the drama down.  A public forum attracts people from all walks of life and the internet gives people a forum where they don't have to hide.  They feel safe behind the keyboard.  That creates drama and even monsters.  It has happened here over and over and over.  I've lost a lot of friends.  I've even been the cause of some problems.  I can admit that.  However, people will not police themselves and it will get out of hand.  AGAIN.  We don't learn from our mistakes as humans and we will walk that ground again.

Start it back up again if you want, mods and admins.  I won't be going in there.  It is just a fight waiting to happen, and it will.

Again, I'm not vying for the reopening of the TR necesarily. I mentioned it as it is symbolic of the freedom to discuss topic in the light of a Christian perspective, something that can't happen here now. It doesn't matter if there is contention or not, if it gets too religious, it closes.

BTW, I don't think this thread is any kind of powder keg. There are disagreements and a bit of emotion but everything is civil.

Disagreements + emotion = potential powder keg.

Also, how is not having a room not having freedom?  Your rights have not been stripped away.  You have the right to start a board and run it the way you see fit.  The CMR doesn't control you or the internet.  As I stated before, this is Arttie's house.  You don't come into my house and tell or even ask me how to run my affairs.  I don't see this message board or my own or Facebook/Twitter any different.  If you don't like the fixtures, build your own house.  Otherwise, you play by the house rules.  This is what our actions brought to us, and we should learn to be thankful that only closing a room is all that happened.  Multiple bannings should have occured but Arttie is a forgiving and graceful man.  Can't we just leave it at that?

ThomasEversole wrote:

Adam wrote:

ThomasEversole wrote:If an addendum was made to the rules that no flaming/insults/degradation of including (but not limited to) persons in the media, organizations, ways of thinking, beliefs different from their own, music preference, genres of music, etc. is allowed.  “Everyone is welcome to disagree, but don’t speak in negative connotations to something/someone that another forum member may be emotionally/mentally/spiritually involved in.

But this is an unBiblical approach. Calling people names is perfectly acceptable by Christ's standards if they deserve it. Please see the following:

Matthew 23:27, Jesus called out the Pharisees and said they were like "whitewashed tombs"
Matthew 23:33, Jesus called the Pharisees "Serpents, brood of vipers!"
Luke 13:32, Jesus called Herod a "fox"
Matthew 15:26, Jesus called the Canaanite woman a "little dog"

Wooooooooooooow.  We've been doing it right all along.  Mods, change the forum rules now.
Anyone who disagrees with me abusing "righteous namecalling" is a dick.

Seriously, I think there's a HUGE difference in Christ (who commands authority) calling a PHRARISEE a serpent...
...and Joe calling Tim names here.

exo wrote:The I would like for someone to specifically point out where staff has said "don't talk about God". 

    There seems to be this perception......dare I say grudge......floating just under the surface about this, and yet I daresay words are being put into the staff's mouth over this matter.

    It also just absolutely KILLS me that a thread gets closed, and somehow the STAFF is to blame rather than the posters engaging in the same crap that gets threads locked AGAIN.  That, my friends , is a full load of pure, unadulterated horsecrap.

    I, for one, don't appreciate it.  Not in the slightest.

The problem here is not about "talking about God".  The problem here is that people don't want to engage in civil discussion once matters get religious in nature. They want to behave like petulant children when another poster ruffles their feathers a bit.  It's ALWAYS been an issue of behavior, rather than content.  There's plentiful examples of it already in this thread, more than enough to merit me giving this one lockdown as well.  If certain participants here can't see or understand that, I'm not sure what else can be done to enlighten them.

    If you feel differently about it, well, your perception of the matter is flat out wrong......and it's not up for discussion.

Driven wrote:TR or no TR, there will still be loads of junk being spewed. The spiritual problem is a lack of respect for each other and for each other's opinions. This thread is exhibit A.

exo wrote:The I would like for someone to specifically point out where staff has said "don't talk about God".  There seems to be this perception......dare I say grudge......floating just under the surface about this, and yet I daresay words are being put into the staff's mouth over this matter.

It also just absolutely KILLS me that a thread gets closed, and somehow the STAFF is to blame rather than the posters engaging in the same crap that gets threads locked AGAIN.  That, my friends , is a full load of pure, unadulterated horsecrap.

I, for one, don't appreciate it.  Not in the slightest.

The problem here is not about "talking about God".  The problem here is that people don't want to engage in civil discussion once matters get religious in nature. They want to behave like petulant children when another poster ruffles their feathers a bit.  It's ALWAYS been an issue of behavior, rather than content.  There's plentiful examples of it already in this thread, more than enough to merit me giving this one lockdown as well.  If certain participants here can't see or understand that, I'm not sure what else can be done to enlighten them.

If you feel differently about it, well, your perception of the matter is flat out wrong......and it's not up for discussion.

messiaen77 wrote:

d@v!d wrote:I believe there is a spiritual problem here on the CMR.
 
When you forbid Christians to talk about the Word of God on a "Christian" message board you got your priorities wrong in my opinion.
 
 I get that some people do not like their beliefs and world views challenged as such that they wish to shut down dialog, but you'd think that they simply would just ignore threads that do and certainly not post in such thread to invite push-back.
 
The Word of God divides and that’s why you are seeing denominations split over stuff like homosexuality. A lot of us here are already divided, but we should never be afraid of a free-flow of ideas around here.
 
What shouldn’t be allowed to divide us is name calling, trolling, and pestering each other. I think that we all have attained maturity that we can keep each other in check if one of us falters in one of the areas.
 
It’s been over a year since the ‘theology’ forum was closed and it’s beginning to seem like it’s more than just a peace keeping measure. Why are we so afraid to discuss matters of Christian truth?

I'd like to go back to D@vid's original post.

I'm not sure I'd call the problem spiritual at its root, but it definitely has spiritual implications.  It is not a problem limited to this board, it is a problem that is rampant in society.  Someone on up the comments already made that point.  I believe it is rooted in fear.  We live in a time when there is so much uncertainty that we tend to cling to those things we hold as Truth and feel threatened when those things come under fire.  Whether it is a theology, an ideology, or a particular leader, we have come to identify with those things we hold dear and consider them an extension of ourselves because they provide security and comfort.  So I understand what Thomas is saying about Joyce Meyer (and in retrospect what Aaron had said previously about Joel Osteen).  I want to say something about this that I have said before, but this time more rationally and less emotionally.  We can never control what other people think or say or do, the only thing we can control is how we react to it.  D@vid talked about maturity, and that reminds me of what Paul said:  "When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, and I reasoned like a child.  But when I became a man, I put those childish ways behind me."  As a society (and this board as a subset of that society), I think the problem is that we are carrying those childish ways into adulthood.  I see it when people want to control what college professors teach in their classes because God forbid they are ever exposed to a new or different idea.  I see it when groups of people demand that images and icons of the past be removed or covered up because it makes them uncomfortable rather than using those images as a reminder of what has been and to strengthen our resolve to not return to that.  I see it when people who have different political ideas would rather resort to namecalling and character attacks than actually discussing those differences.  I see it when people default to using violence to solve their problems rather than trying to work things out in other ways.  I see it people who can't just let things go, but have to respond to every slight--real or perceived.  We are scared, and when we are afraid, we seek safety and security and try to shut out anything that makes us feel otherwise.  I get that and I feel that.  I guess what I'm beating around the bush saying is that I disagree that "we all have attained maturity that we can keep each other in check".  If that was true, then it would be easy to be a moderator.  Some of you may be feeling singled out by what I'm writing, and I promise you I am not pointing fingers at anyone.  I am speaking as much to myself as I am any other person.

Here's the other thing about fear:  God's love casts out fear.  Yes, we have a lot of divisions on this board, but that is because we have a lot of different people.  Politically we have people who are super conservative and people who are pretty daggone liberal and middle of the roaders like myself.  Theologically we have Reformed folks, free grace folks, Evangelicals, Progressives, Catholics, Pentecostals, Holiness, Wesleyans, and people who just say screw it all I just love Jesus.  Not to mention the people who aren't even Christian.  We've got people in all walks of life.  The Word of God divides, but it isn't divisive.  That's on us.  What we need is a whole lot more of God's love in this joint.  I'll be honest:  I hate when people come here and start talking all kinds of trash about Obama as a person.  Not because I support him--he wasn't my 1st, 2nd, or 854th choice for President--but because God's love isn't in it.  And surely saying "I'm not going to buy the new Tourniquet album because because I don't like all of the animal rights lyrics" is enough and we don't need to berate Ted because he believes so deeply in this.  We seem too forgetful that our call isn't to speak the truth, it is to speak the truth IN LOVE.  I'm not talking the hippie-dippie "it's all cool because we have love" kinda thing, I'm talking about the attitude of our hearts.  I believe there are some who feel passionately that WoF/prosperity/whatever teachers are fleecing the flock and are doing the work of Satan and they speak out against them because they genuinely do not want anyone to fall prey to them.  There are others who feel that they have been ministered to greatly by those same ministers.  Instead of duking it out, how about we just leave it at stating your thoughts and allowing the Holy Spirit to do its work?  Just a thought.

exo wrote:The I would like for someone to specifically point out where staff has said "don't talk about God".  There seems to be this perception......dare I say grudge......floating just under the surface about this, and yet I daresay words are being put into the staff's mouth over this matter.

It also just absolutely KILLS me that a thread gets closed, and somehow the STAFF is to blame rather than the posters engaging in the same crap that gets threads locked AGAIN.  That, my friends , is a full load of pure, unadulterated horsecrap.

I, for one, don't appreciate it.  Not in the slightest.

The problem here is not about "talking about God".  The problem here is that people don't want to engage in civil discussion once matters get religious in nature. They want to behave like petulant children when another poster ruffles their feathers a bit.  It's ALWAYS been an issue of behavior, rather than content.  There's plentiful examples of it already in this thread, more than enough to merit me giving this one lockdown as well.  If certain participants here can't see or understand that, I'm not sure what else can be done to enlighten them.

If you feel differently about it, well, your perception of the matter is flat out wrong......and it's not up for discussion.

D@v!d wrote:

exo wrote:The I would like for someone to specifically point out where staff has said "don't talk about God".  

https://thecmr.forumotion.com/t7158-please-read-theology-real

Adam wrote:
Well, we are called to be like Christ. WWJD and all that. When someone directly opposes Scripture, I'm allowed to call them whatever is relevant, whether it be heretic, blasphemer, serpent, snake.

I'm not sure why you feel that we get to pick and choose what parts of Christ to be like.

exo wrote:
It also just absolutely KILLS me that a thread gets closed, and somehow the STAFF is to blame rather than the posters engaging in the same crap that gets threads locked AGAIN.  That, my friends , is a full load of pure, unadulterated horsecrap.

I, for one, don't appreciate it.  Not in the slightest.

KaramKaram wrote:Well, you aren't adding light either with your previous comment when you read his mind and knowing what he would post before him doing it.

If you have something against alldat or anyone else take it privately

H.M. Murdock wrote:

Candlemass wrote:

KaramKaram wrote:Well, you aren't adding light either with your previous comment when you read his mind and knowing what he would post before him doing it.

If you have something against alldat or anyone else take it privately

Not sure I follow you...