Iron Maiden?

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Iron Maiden?

Post by Hardcore Christian on Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:16 pm

So I happened to look at Book Of Souls lyrics

I saw only about 3 songs and man were they very Spiritual type stuff.
I mean their are "Christian" bands that don't even have as good of Biblically based lyrics.

I was just impressed, anyone else have any thoughts?

(Waiting for Kerrick Twisted Evil )


Last edited by Hardcore Christian on Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by metaldude on Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:27 pm

I am by no means a Maiden expert, but I believe Nicko McBrain is a Christian. Like you said, Kerrick will know more.
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Kerrick on Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:57 pm

Iron Maiden is definitely not a Christian band hahaha...  Metaldude is right though, Nicko is very outspoken about his faith in Christ.  Bruce and Steve have very un-Christian beliefs (not anti-Christian though, that I'm aware of).  Check out some of Steve Harris' solo material's lyrics for more info on that.  What I found surprising though is the cross that Adrian has worn in the more recent photos of the band.



As someone who's pretty conservative when it comes to lyrics, Maiden has always been fine in my books.  They've got some somewhat risque lyrics earlier on (Charlotte The Harlot, etc.) but nothing obscene IMO.  Bruce has a bit of a potty mouth when singing live, but whatever.  God willing I ever have kids, they'll be allowed to listen to Maiden.  Truth is, they won't have a choice...   Twisted Evil

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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Hardcore Christian on Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:04 pm

metaldude wrote:I am by no means a Maiden expert, but I believe Nicko McBrain is a Christian. Like you said, Kerrick will know more.
I knew one members was, and yes he does Very Happy
Kerrick wrote:Iron Maiden is definitely not a Christian band hahaha...  Metaldude is right though, Nicko is very outspoken about his faith in Christ.
God willing I ever have kids, they'll be allowed to listen to Maiden.  Truth is, they won't have a choice...   Twisted Evil
Ik they are not but they have more Christian type lyrics than a lot of other bands Cool

And that will be a beautiful thing lol!
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Kerrick on Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:26 pm

Hahaha when that time comes, I'll be sure to put this on the registry for the baby shower:


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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Hardcore Christian on Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:46 pm

Kerrick wrote:Hahaha when that time comes, I'll be sure to put this on the registry for the baby shower:

Thats about as metal as it gets Rockin Loud
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by exo on Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:45 am

I Hardcore Christian wrote:
Kerrick wrote:Hahaha when that time comes, I'll be sure to put this on the registry for the baby shower:

Thats about as metal as it gets Rockin Loud



If we have any more kids, the next offspring WILL wear one of these:


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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Fundy on Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:29 am

If only I'd have known about that 6 years ago!  The Pooper would have been bought!
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:55 am

LOL @ the pooper if only my wife would consent.........

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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by sentient 6 on Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:21 pm

Hardcore Christian wrote:So I happened to look at Book Of Souls lyrics

I saw only about 3 songs and man were they very Christian type stuff.
I mean their are "Christian" bands that don't even have as good of Biblically based lyrics.

I was just impressed, anyone else have any thoughts?

(Waiting for Kerrick Twisted Evil )

Ok, first thought was....this is a sad commentary for " christian " metal then. cyclops
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by sentient 6 on Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:28 pm

After given a quick look at just the lyrics to The Book of Souls..

.....very cryptic....but not very consistent with a Biblical theology.

I don't really mean to dissent or be a killjoy, but sometimes we see what we want to see.

.....just another perspective.
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by sentient 6 on Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:30 pm

...yes !.....THE POOPER Metal 1
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Devon Hill on Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:52 am

Hardcore Christian wrote:So I happened to look at Book Of Souls lyrics

I saw only about 3 songs and man were they very Christian type stuff.
I mean their are "Christian" bands that don't even have as good of Biblically based lyrics.

I was just impressed, anyone else have any thoughts?

(Waiting for Kerrick Twisted Evil )

I read through the lyrics, and personally I don't see very much Christian stuff in it.  There are a few things here and there that talk about biblical things, and maybe even some biblical truths, but that doesn't automatically mean it is Christian persay.  Sometimes words can be said, that are Christian sounding, but actually are not used in that context.

As an example, Bruce Dickinson wrote a song "Man of Sorrows" on his Accident of Birth solo album.  Normally in Christianity, Jesus is the Man of Sorrows.  However, Bruce has mentioned in interviews that this song is about one of the most anti-Christian persons in recent history - Aleister Crowley.

Bruce Dickinson's The Chemical Wedding solo album also has lots of biblical imagery or references.  However that doesn't mean it is coming from a Christian perspective.  For example, Bruce says the following about one of the songs on The Chemical Wedding: "For example, one of the songs is about failure and the song is called "The Trumpets of Jericho". In the story of the trumpets of Jericho in the Bible, the walls fall down when the tribes of Israel walk around the city and blow their trumpets. Except in this song they don't, it doesn't work. You've done everything right, everything's cool but the wall's still standing. And what do you do? How do you face up to that fact? And it's all part of the whole alchemy thing. What were the alchemists trying to do? They were trying to achieve something that was virtually impossible, they spent their whole lives trying to do it, and all of them failed, or pretty damn near all of them failed." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chemical_Wedding_(Bruce_Dickinson_album)

Also Bruce says the following about The Chemical Wedding in an interview:

RB: "Did you do research in the Bible or in any alchemy book?"

Bruce: "Yes, I've researched things that I didn't know very well. I have a small library at home and I used those books to research - principally a German book about occultism."

RB: "You used some illustrations in the album. Did you have to study occultism too?"

Bruce: "Yes. Look, alchemy has a huge way to define it. And for sure it has a bit of occultism too. This whole thing together helps us to understand the universe that we live in. Aleister Crowley studied it a lot. I admire it."
http://maidenfans.com/index.php?ACT=module&name=rwarticles&show=95

The Chemical Wedding, while having quite a few biblical references, is ultimately about alchemy, William Blake's poetry (who was also into alchemy) and is derived/inspired out of the occult.  Aleister Crowley was a very dedicated occultist who referred to himself as the Great Beast 666.  He singlehandedly promoted and did more for getting people into the occult than probably anybody else in recent history.

Obviously these examples are not from The Book of Souls, but I am just using them to show that just because there is biblical imagery or things said, it doesn't necessarily mean they are using it in a Christian way.  I remember back in the day when I was reading the lyrics from The Chemical Wedding, I thought similar things - that the lyrics were impressively Christian.  Then when I started to look into it a bit more, I realized this was actually not the case, but it was actually about alchemy and the occult - self-admitted by Bruce himself.  In a sense, I wanted it to be Christian, and I was interpreting it through my own Christian lens to be so.  Is The Book of Souls in a similar boat?  I don't know.  However, I personally saw limited stuff in the lyrics that would be Christian in nature, and not just using a bit of biblical imagery or general references in a couple songs.  Other songs mentioned non-Christian things such as other gods, shamans, etc.

Just my opinion.  Very Happy
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Hardcore Christian on Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:53 am

sentient 6 wrote:After given a quick look at just the lyrics to The Book of Souls..

.....very cryptic....but not very consistent with a Biblical theology.

I don't really mean to dissent or be a killjoy, but sometimes we see what we want to see.

.....just another perspective.
I only looked at about 3 songs and what I saw was more "Christian" looking then a lot of bands. As in references in a power metal type way.

Like here from If Eternity Should Fail:

We are strange believers, all of us
There are stranger truths, immortal lust
We rise from slumber, he calls our name
Recalls our number, abide with pain

From When The River Runs Deep:

Look for something that is hard to find
Searching somewhere deep inside your mind
Hope you find just what you're looking for
Heaven's waiting with an open door

From Shadows Of The Valley:

Listen closely to the raven’s call
Praying hard for our world not to end
Try as might to make sense of it all
Will it be for the penance of men
Follow north for the call of the wild
Look all out for a small wayward child
Lay in fear as the dark raven crows
Look for guidance from the one who knows
He lived on this earth for a time and a half
Playing a tune to the old man’s laugh
The fear that’s inside the men of the oath
In the script of the book that He wrote

Later:

Into the valley of death fear no evil
We will go forward no matter the cost
Into the valley of death follow me now
Bring me your souls and I’ll make it our last

And dont make this theological, Im just stating the lyrics that stand out as having a deeper meaning than the standard Maiden song.
To me this is way more "Christian" than quite a few bands

but thats just my opinion Cool

Devon Hill wrote:As an example, Bruce Dickinson wrote a song "Man of Sorrows" on his Accident of Birth solo album.

Bruce Dickinson's The Chemical Wedding solo album also has lots of biblical imagery or references.

Also Bruce says the following about The Chemical Wedding in an interview:

Bruce: "Yes, I've researched things that I didn't know very well. I have a small library at home and I used those books to research - principally a German book about occultism."

Bruce: "Yes. Look, alchemy has a huge way to define it. And for sure it has a bit of occultism too. This whole thing together helps us to understand the universe that we live in. Aleister Crowley studied it a lot. I admire it."
But Bruce is not a Christian remember? Razz
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Kerrick on Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:28 am

[Hehe I'm listening to Maiden's new album as I type. Cool ]

Maiden has had spiritual themes since pretty much the get-go in their lyrics, but as Devon said, I wouldn't consider them to be "Christian" necessarily.  Nicko wrote one song on the Dance Of Death album which had some Christian themes, but even that was relatively cryptic.

However, some of their most overt "Christian" lyrics came from the Blaze era of the 90's.  (Sorry for the spelling/grammar errors; I pulled these straight off of The Metal Archives.)  But even these could be interpreted in different ways, as they're more questioning faith rather than embracing it completely.

The Sign Of The Cross:
Eleven saintly shrouded men
Silhouettes stand against the sky
One in front with a cross held night
Come to wash my sins away

Standing alone in the wind and rain
Feeling the fear that is growing
Sensing the change in the tide again
Brought by the storm that is brewing
Feel the anxiety hold off the fear
Some of the doubt in the things you believe
Now that your faith will be put to the test
Nothing to do but await that is coming

Why then is god still protecting me
Even when I don't deserve it
Thought I am blessed with an inner strength
Some they would call it a penance
Why am I meant to face this alone
Asking the question time and again
Praying to god won't keep me alive
Inside my head feel the fear start to rise...

They'll be saying their prayers when the moment comes
There'll be penace to pay when it's judgement day
And the guilty'll be bleed when that moment comes
They'll be coming to claim, take your soul away

The sign of the cross
The name of the rose, a fire in the sky
The sign of the cross

They'll be coming to bring the eternal flame
They'll be bringing us all immortality
Holding communion so the world be blessed
My creator, my god'll lay my soul to rest

Lost the love of heaven above
Chose the lust of the earth below
Eleven saintly shrouded men
Came to wash my sins away

Judgment Of Heaven:
A lonely cry for help peaching out for help to anymore
A silent prayer to god to help you on your way
I've been depressed so long
It's hard to remember when I was happy
I've felt like suicide dozen times or more
But that's like easy way, that's the selfish way
The hardest part is to get on with your life

You're searching in the dark clutching at straws to find a way
You take the tarot [?] cards and throw them to the wind
You [?] question your beliefs your inner thoughts,
Your whole existence
And if there is a good then answer if you will
And tell me of my fate, tell me of my place
Tell me if I'll ever rest in peace

If you could live again
Would you change a thing or leave it all the same
If you had the chance again
Would you change the thing at all
When you look back at yor past
Can you say that you are proud of what you've done
Are there times when you believe
That the right you [?] thought was wrong

All of my life I have believed
Judgement of heaven is waiting for me

All of my life now I have believed
Judgement of heaven is waiting for me...

The Unbeliever:
When you start to take a look within
Do you feel at ease with what you see
Do you think you can have peace of mind
And have self-belief or be satisfied

Do you think you even like yourself
or really think you could be someone else
Is there something that you'd rather be
Never thought you'd be had the chance to see

All my life I've run away
All my life I tried to hide away

Feel the paranoia creeping in
Like a cancer eating at the skin
Do you feel you've lost yourself esteem
And your self respect, what can you expect

All my life...I've run astray
Let my faith...slip away
Allowed my faith...to drift away

Are you scared to look inside your mind
Are you worried just at what you'll find
Do you really want to face the truth
Does it matter now, what have you got to lose

Try to release the anger from within
Forgive yourself a few immortal sins
Do you really care what people think
Are you strong enough to release the guilt

The Angel And The Gambler:
Roll of the dice, take a spin of the wheel
Out of your hands now, so how do you feel?
But you’re not gonna win, you’d better go back again

Do you feel lucky or do you feel scared
Take what luck brings and be Devil may care
But you’re down on your luck and what will the next day bring

Adrift on the ocean, afloat in a daydream
Or lost in a maze or blind in the haze
So what does it matter? So why don’t you answer?
So why did you send an angel to mend?

Best make decisions before it’s too late
Take all your chances, take hold of the reins
A roll of the dice, ahead of the game again

Nothing to lose, but so much to gain
A little danger - it goes without saying
But what do you care: you’re gonna go in the end

Gate open to Heaven, is ready and waiting
Or straight down to hell, can go there as well
I’ll suffer my craving, my soul’s not worth saving
So why don’t you go, just leave well alone?

Don’t you think I’m a saviour
Don’t you think I could save you
Don’t you think I could save your life...

There’s like a hunger that knocks on your door
You’ve had a taste of it, still you want more
You’ve made your mistakes, won’t play it the same again

You have been warned, but still you plunge in
You play high stakes, but there’s nothing to win
You’ve only one life and so many things to learn

The Angel on one side, the Devil the other
Which path do you take, decisions to make
Arrive at the crossroads, you know where you’re going
And what if you wait - it may be too late

Don’t you think I’m a saviour
Don’t you think I could save you
Don’t you think I could save your life...

The Educated Fool:
I’m an educated fool so I don’t know what it is I’m supposed to do
About this awkward situation that’s been forced down right upon me
As I’m walking down into on my own into the Valley of life
Got a lifetime of experience, yeah, I’ve got so much to give

Open the page at chapter one
Could this just be that life’s just begun?
Forever within your darker thoughts
Reflecting on everything you’ve been taught

Never felt this way before, seems that somebody’s just opened the door
To the book of life... or is it death? Is there ever anyway out?
Someone’s looking down on me to the very inner core of my soul
They won’t tell me what they see, but I really want to know

I want to live my life on my own
I want to lift the unturned stone
I want to walk right into the fire
I want to live out all my desires
I want to go and see the fire burn
I want to see and feel my world turn
I want to know what more there’s to learn
I want to pass the point of no return

Do you really wanna be just another one statistic or feel
That you really should aspire, that you really do deserve more?
Do you ever really feel that you have so much potential inside?
What you really have to give could be realised so much more

~Time will flow and I will follow~
~Time will go, but I will follow~

I want to feel what life’s like respond
I want to meet my father beyond
I want to walk right into the light
I want to feel no fear but delight

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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Hardcore Christian on Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:50 pm

I am not sure why you guys like the word cryptic so much but to me if a band that said, " hey we are a Christian band" had these lyrics on a album to me that would be pretty good. All I meant with this thread was pointing out the obvious Spiritual themes from Nicko's influence on the lyrics and band.
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Kerrick on Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:09 pm

Noncryptically speaking, the cryptical nature of your cryptosystem has far too much crypticity to discern in a noncryptical manner.  Razz

But yes, Maiden does have some spiritual and even Christian themes, though they are by no stretch of the imagination a "Christian band."  One might say the best band ever though...   What a Face

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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Hardcore Christian on Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:14 pm

Kerrick wrote:Noncryptically speaking, the cryptical nature of your cryptosystem has far too much crypticity to discern in a noncryptical manner.  Razz

One might say the best band ever though...   What a Face
lol!

I cant wait to see your children some day from what I have seen in this thread Razz
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by metaldude on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:47 pm

Kerrick wrote: One might say the best band ever though...

Or not... Wink
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Kerrick on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:30 pm

Hardcore Christian wrote:
Kerrick wrote:Noncryptically speaking, the cryptical nature of your cryptosystem has far too much crypticity to discern in a noncryptical manner.  Razz

One might say the best band ever though...   What a Face
lol!

I cant wait to see your children some day from what I have seen in this thread Razz

Yeah God help my poor future children...  They're gonna need it!  Spam

metaldude wrote:
Kerrick wrote:One might say the best band ever though...

Or not...    Wink

Grrrr

Well, I did say "ONE might say"... so... I guess we know who that one person is haha.

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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by WildWorld on Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:18 pm

Nicko has never really had much influence on the lyrics though. The only song he contributed lyrics to AFAIK was New Frontier (which was about how human cloning and genetically created humans was "playing God").

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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by sentient 6 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:05 pm

Hardcore Christian wrote:
I only looked at about 3 songs and what I saw was more "Christian" looking then a lot of bands. As in references in a power metal type way.

Like here from If Eternity Should Fail:

We are strange believers, all of us
There are stranger truths, immortal lust
We rise from slumber, he calls our name
Recalls our number, abide with pain

From When The River Runs Deep:

Look for something that is hard to find
Searching somewhere deep inside your mind
Hope you find just what you're looking for
Heaven's waiting with an open door

From Shadows Of The Valley:

Listen closely to the raven’s call
Praying hard for our world not to end
Try as might to make sense of it all
Will it be for the penance of men
Follow north for the call of the wild
Look all out for a small wayward child
Lay in fear as the dark raven crows
Look for guidance from the one who knows
He lived on this earth for a time and a half
Playing a tune to the old man’s laugh
The fear that’s inside the men of the oath
In the script of the book that He wrote

Later:

Into the valley of death fear no evil
We will go forward no matter the cost
Into the valley of death follow me now
Bring me your souls and I’ll make it our last

And dont make this theological, Im just stating the lyrics that stand out as having a deeper meaning than the standard Maiden song.
To me this is way more "Christian" than quite a few bands

but thats just my opinion Cool




I guess you'd have to tell me what you think those songs are saying too you that lead you to believe that they are communicating some kind of Christian truth. Because I just don't see it. Is  Christian truth that unclear were cannot recognize mystical philosopy in its place ?

Like I said before, if you believe these are more biblical that many " christian " bands, I think that is a sad commentary on the state of christian metal.


In a nutshell, I don't see anything in those lyrics that would cause conern for your average garden variety atheist ( or satan for that matter ).affraid
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by sentient 6 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:13 pm

Hardcore Christian wrote:I am not sure why you guys like the word cryptic so much but to me if a band that said, " hey we are a Christian band" had these lyrics on a album to me that would be pretty good. All I meant with this thread was pointing out the obvious Spiritual themes from Nicko's influence on the lyrics and band.
I think something is " cryptic I guess when I can't tell what the heck the songs are about. Evil or Very Mad

Now HCC, I think you should test all things that appear " spiritual " against the Word of God if want to be sure that they line up with Christian belief. Thats the safest bet.
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Black Rider on Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:35 pm

Is vague a better word. I don't get much "christian" from the lyrics. They throw in a few catch phrases like valley of death and a man who lived a time and a half and that makes it Biblical?Not saying not to listen either.
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Kerrick on Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:56 pm

One cool thing about Maiden (among MANY cool things haha) is that they don't/rarely preach at the listener.  Their songs are either based on history, literature, or the like... or they're more open-ended and allow the listener to arrive at their own conclusions.

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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Hardcore Christian on Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:40 pm

Ok it has officially become a theology roast on me

Quick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...................... lock the thread

I to be honest have no intention of starting a discussion on my personal preferences on lyrics. Because something stood out to me, is my opinion and view. Which obviously everyone wants to jump on at this point so.............

I'm, personally,  done with this thread, lock it I don't care what happens
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by sentient 6 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:59 pm

Hardcore Christian wrote:Ok it has officially become a theology roast on me


You don't have to lock the thread....i'll try not to say much more.

I wasn't roasting you, but merely disagreeing with you. If you were offended by what I stated...I apologize. But I will never apologize for pushing for clear Christian messages in music. Biblical truth is too precious too me to have people settle for poor ( and misleading ) substitutes. 

For the record, I am not saying not too listen the album. I am simply saying there songs have little relevance to biblical theology.
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by sentient 6 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:04 pm

Black Rider wrote:Is vague a better word. I don't get much "christian" from the lyrics. They throw in a few catch phrases like valley of death and a man who lived a time and a half and that makes it Biblical?Not saying not to listen either.

Yeah, this is simply good secular art that mixes in themes of a mystical nature. I'm just saying that its not Holy Spirit inspired ( biblical ) in its intention.
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by d@v!d on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:10 am

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

What we have in Christianity is truth that makes us uncomfortable at times.

So, what should we do when uncomfortable on account of it?

We need to reorient our thinking so that we are not bucking up against it.
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by metaldude on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:19 am

Hardcore Christian wrote:Ok it has officially become a theology roast on me

Quick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...................... lock the thread

I to be honest have no intention of starting a discussion on my personal preferences on lyrics. Because something stood out to me, is my opinion and view. Which obviously everyone wants to jump on at this point so.............

I'm, personally,  done with this thread, lock it I don't care what happens

I won't jump on you, bro. God's principles are God's principles, regardless of the messenger. I got your point.
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by messiaen77 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:33 am

d@v!d wrote:For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

What we have in Christianity is truth that makes us uncomfortable at times.

So, what should we do when uncomfortable on account of it?

We need to reorient our thinking so that we are not bucking up against it.
Do you mean be transformed by the renewing of our minds?  Preposterous!!
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by Kerrick on Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:41 pm


_________________
Job 3:2
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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by zelote on Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:23 pm

Maybe you can search in tihs web, has interesting information that maybe can help you. 

http://www.ironmaidencommentary.com/

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Re: Iron Maiden?

Post by H.M. Murdock on Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:51 pm



Murdock was not surprised at how long it took the anti-God crowd to give their two cents in the comment section
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Re: Iron Maiden?

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