Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by sentient 6 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:07 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:


Majority of the bands do it as a job because they love music. Not for the ministry. Some bands will try to justify their love of music by attempting to use it as ministry.


This can be true sometimes. You can tell the ones that see their music as a true evangelical tool when you see them give a clear proclamation of the Gospel. And I don't just mean in their music, but declaring it when they have the audience in front of them. Some bands hide it too much and I guess they hope people will figure out what their message is. And as a side note, some my not even be gifted to use their music in this way.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by sentient 6 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:18 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:
[Funny that I don't hold my movies to the same standard..how odd....oh well.. ]


Sometimes what the Holy Spirit tells is in conflict with what our flesh desires. The grip of this constant need to " entertain " ourselves is not lost on satan either. He'll use any tool in his bag to keep our eyes off our ever seeking of Gods Kingdom.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by sentient 6 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:27 pm

alldatndensum wrote: Bands like Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Ratt and a handful of others come to mind.  Their first efforts were enough to get them out there and the labels/producers were able to turn them into something bigger. 


Of those bands you listed, I personally like the first few albums better than the more commercial albums. Essentially what you are talking about in regards to producers is the process of turning bands into something commercial viable....turning them into a pop band. But when that's the case, you still need some raw talent to work with.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:12 pm

James B. wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:I said it before and I will say it again...

I don't need my music to "minister" to me.....I want my music to be clean and devoid of sex, drugs, alcohol, cussing, etc etc and come from people who have relatively the same beliefs I do  
So you want it to encourage, edify, and uplift you ?

If so, that is what "minister" means.


You also stated "I saw first hand in the 80s how phoney the alter calls were that a lot of these bands did.....no thanks....I'll look elsewhere for my nourishment."

Why would an alter call be a source of nourishment for a believer ? That is something done for non-believers. That is a bold statement to judge the validity of one's heart, be it the one asking another to come forward and the one doing so.  The act itself is a spiritual thing and assessing it on an outward observation gives the perception that God gave you the gift of some really powerful discernment.


Wow..talk about misreading what someone says.... Shocked

I never said or implied I was looking for my music to encourage, edify, and uplift me. Music to me is purely entertainment. Nothing more.entertainment can be simply something that kills time or puts a smile on your face. Don't need it to encourage or edify me, I just don't want to hear a bunch of crap about sex being forced on me like secular hair bands do. 


And I never said or implied that altar calls were a source of nourishment for a believer. The statement by me about altar calls was to show how fake the scene was, thereby giving even more of a reason why I would never look to musicians to minister to me. If they were fake about that, why would I trust them about anything spiritual?

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:05 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:

Wow..talk about misreading what someone says.... Shocked

I never said or implied I was looking for my music to encourage, edify, and uplift me. Music to me is purely entertainment. Nothing more.entertainment can be simply something that kills time or puts a smile on your face. Don't need it to encourage or edify me, I just don't want to hear a bunch of crap about sex being forced on me like secular hair bands do. 


And I never said or implied that altar calls were a source of nourishment for a believer. The statement by me about altar calls was to show how fake the scene was, thereby giving even more of a reason why I would never look to musicians to minister to me. If they were fake about that, why would I trust them about anything spiritual?

If you are placing parameters on the content of entertainment, what is the purpose behind that ? To most I'd say it is due to not wanting to feed their spirit with crap...the old adage of "garbage in....garbage out".  Even though you won't admit it, that in itself is a "form" of edification.

As to the "nourishment" comment, you yourself stated the phony alter calls were cause for you to look elsewhere for that, correct. Thus why I commented as such. To place some context on the subject,  say what you perceived to be fake actually had "ONE" person come into God's Kingdom due to that performance ? What if that "ONE" person answered the call out in the foyer or in the parking lot outside, away fro your view ? That in itself makes it worth while and gives it "VALUE" in God's Kingdom. If your goal was just to be entertained, perhaps that is why you have the attitude and belief that you do ?  It sucks that you only got to see the fake side of things, I personally know 100's of people to this very day who received Christ due to music ministries and are still serving Christ almost 30 years later.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:25 pm

I never said any such thing about me looking to get anything from the alter calls.

I just said it was an example of the falseness of their message.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Believer12 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:07 am

grandeped wrote:Everyone's opinion of what is bad or good is going to be different. I never found Irish to be that good, but Tempest had something about them that I liked (even if not perfect).
I remember Tempest I didn't think they were that bad either but I get were the poster is coming from. I remember buying anything I could get my hands on just because it had the Christian Metal label on it. It was such an oddity back then and so new at least to me. But I remember going through a lot of it realising this is junk! Xalt and Stryken come to mind for me anyway. Not trying to disrespect anyone's favorites
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Believer12 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:15 am

eatbugs wrote:
metaldude wrote:One of the things that was really lacking in the 80's, mostly on the Christian  side, was good producers.

What he said.

There's a lot of my 80's and 90's Christian rock and metal collection that doesn't sound as good as their mainstream counterparts.  There are exceptions of course but in manycases it's not musical talent but production that's the problem.
I agree with that totally. I've often wondered if a band like Stryken or Philadelphia had a better production budget if they would be more listenable. A Ramones release had better production than their stuff
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:36 am

Back to the opening question: no, the only that truly sucks is the thread title and its inane, hypothetical question.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by alldatndensum on Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:55 am

I've been thinking about the original question.  To be honest, I knew that some of my old music sucked but still love it because of the raw passion.  It is some of my NEWER music that I have noticed sucks.  The over-compressed sounds, lack of guitar solos or a soloist who doesn't know how to make a solo to fit a song, poor vocals, forgettable riffs, etc.  I am noticing that I am listening to less and less modern stuff that, because of the aforementioned issues, all just blends together and sounds the same to me.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:23 pm

Neal Morse Code wrote:Back to the opening question: no, the only that truly sucks is the thread title and its inane, hypothetical question.


Then be quite and move on if you don't like it ..pretty simple really. No one forces you to read a thread if you don't like it,
that's one of the great things about forums. Lots of topics and lots of opinions....you don't need to agree or like them all.


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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:29 pm

alldatndensum wrote:I've been thinking about the original question.  To be honest, I knew that some of my old music sucked but still love it because of the raw passion.  It is some of my NEWER music that I have noticed sucks.  The over-compressed sounds, lack of guitar solos or a soloist who doesn't know how to make a solo to fit a song, poor vocals, forgettable riffs, etc.  I am noticing that I am listening to less and less modern stuff that, because of the aforementioned issues, all just blends together and sounds the same to me.


Exactly, alldat.

For years I knew a lot of the stuff I listened to was pretty bad in terms of production, vocals, musicianship, etc etc...I kind of always just ignored it and continued listening. Just kind of woke up one day and asked why I was fooling myself..lol

I don't know why, to be honest. Whether it was because I was SUPPOSED to like due it being that it was Christian, or because I was so desperate to have an alternative to the Motley Crue type bands that I forced myself to listen to it..I don't know.

I have found that my tolerance is getting lower for it though.

A lot of new music in this genre is just the same ol same ol too. 

Of course, I get the fact that after awhile all originality is gone just because there is only so much that can be done within one genre. That is natural, I guess.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:36 pm

JPK72 wrote:I had a friend who would buy everything, just because it was Christian Metal, saved me a lot of money because I knew what albums not to buy Laughing Laughing Laughing


Regretfully, I was THAT person... Razz Razz Razz Razz

Anything that came out...any demo I saw advertised in a fanzine...

That was me... lol

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by eatbugs on Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:12 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:
JPK72 wrote:I had a friend who would buy everything, just because it was Christian Metal, saved me a lot of money because I knew what albums not to buy Laughing Laughing Laughing


Regretfully, I was THAT person... Razz Razz Razz Razz

Anything that came out...any demo I saw advertised in a fanzine...

That was me... lol


Guilty!   Laughing   I think some friends of mine saved some money that way too.

Two other points:
I'm one of those people who has a conviction to only listen to Christian or "Christian-friendly" music (it's a personal/Holy Spirit thing I don't hold anyone else to, but I have it) and especially pre-YouTube it was hard to judge talent based on an ad in a fanzine.  So unless I took risks I would only have been able to listen to the same few bands over and over again.

There's also the issue of collectors.  Some of you have enough money to collect Christian metal like others might collect stamps or coins.  I would be like that too if I made enough money to justify it financially.  This means an album gets bought regardless of talent.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:37 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:
Soldier777 wrote:I edited the my post above. In continuing with various bands, I can see when some people said they were into a certain band or album like Messiah Prophet or Bloodgood and after not listening to it for years and picking up and listening to it again recently - it don't have that same novelty. I don't take that necessarily as bands not being good, but perhaps we grow out of bands that we were once into. I find that when I got back into Saint around 2004 and started buying their CDs, I wondered about the "cheese factor" of their music and stage performance - even thought it is more modest, low key than their secular peers. Then you look at Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and I think - Saint is no less cheesy then these guys. Even on the same album like Time's End, I wonder a song like Primed and Ready is subpar but Steel Killer is outstanding and brilliant. Now, I think Time's End is a great album. Basically, I go through a mental roller coaster when I think an album is  as good as the secular music of the same style.

Yeah, I like Saint and have all of their albums...but I never really thought Josh had a great voice and the early music was never top notch. I still liked them...mostly due to them being Christian and not having a lot of choices....but they could never hold a candlestick talent-wise to Judas Priest or Iron Maiden. Never. 

A lot of it is just that many of us always felt that Christian bands were like a part of our family...so we didn't hold them to the same standards as we would for an "outsider" (secular). 

Even back in the 80s, certain Christian artists that we consider great I was embarrassed of when my friends heard them because they were so weak vocally compared to bands like Ratt, Motley, Def Leppard, Maiden, etc etc. Bands like Jerusalem, Daniel Band, Bride, Saint, these are all bands that I loved but were viewed to be a lot better by myself (and a lot of Christians) than they really are.

It isn't due to them singing about Christ that kept them from being more popular with the mainstream, which is what Christian fans will try and tell you, it was talent, or actually a lack of talent...pure and simple. Stryper proved that you could sing about Jesus and still achieve mainstream success.
I couldn't disagree more.

Using your examples, every time I listen to Saint, I always wonder what do they lack in comparison with Maiden and Judas Priest. The only answer I can find is that both Maiden and Priest were pioneers in their styles. Besides that, maybe their financial resources for album production and distribution were much better. But just it. I always end these kind of comparison by thinking how some bands can be overrated.

I am a BIG fan of Stryper, but that is a great example of overrated band in christian metal. They are undoubtedly the most famous christian band out there, even though you can find, at least, a dozen christian bands that are much better than Stryper is.

The quantity of sales doesn't match how good the band is. It is not that logical.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Blake on Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:43 pm

While there are some bad ones out there, I dont think production quality is a fair judgment of music quality. I think production quality and music quality are two different things altogether.

If the only reason a band "sucks" is because of less than stellar sound production and mastering then one may need to re-evaluate their "metalhead" title. Now I can think of at least a handful of bands that have music that is indeed atrocious, but I have also heard bands who have God awful production but great music (raw BM anyone?)


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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:56 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:
Neal Morse Code wrote:Back to the opening question: no, the only that truly sucks is the thread title and its inane, hypothetical question.


Then be quite and move on if you don't like it ..pretty simple really. No one forces you to read a thread if you don't like it,
that's one of the great things about forums. Lots of topics and lots of opinions....you don't need to agree or like them all.
Unless you're a mod, don't restrict my freedom of speech.  If you come out swinging at folks and they swing back, don't whine about it. 

Try a little tact next time.  It works much better.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:07 pm

Neal Morse Code wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:
Neal Morse Code wrote:Back to the opening question: no, the only that truly sucks is the thread title and its inane, hypothetical question.


Then be quite and move on if you don't like it ..pretty simple really. No one forces you to read a thread if you don't like it,
that's one of the great things about forums. Lots of topics and lots of opinions....you don't need to agree or like them all.
Unless you're a mod, don't restrict my freedom of speech.  If you come out swinging at folks and they swing back, don't whine about it. 

Try a little tact next time.  It works much better.


Whatever dude...no one made a comment about you since I was never a fan to begin with, so it didn't really concern you. 

Again, if you don't like a topic, stay out.

And telling you to go pound sand isn't whining. Get a dictionary and look it up.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:12 pm

Thiago-Brazil wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:
Soldier777 wrote:I edited the my post above. In continuing with various bands, I can see when some people said they were into a certain band or album like Messiah Prophet or Bloodgood and after not listening to it for years and picking up and listening to it again recently - it don't have that same novelty. I don't take that necessarily as bands not being good, but perhaps we grow out of bands that we were once into. I find that when I got back into Saint around 2004 and started buying their CDs, I wondered about the "cheese factor" of their music and stage performance - even thought it is more modest, low key than their secular peers. Then you look at Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and I think - Saint is no less cheesy then these guys. Even on the same album like Time's End, I wonder a song like Primed and Ready is subpar but Steel Killer is outstanding and brilliant. Now, I think Time's End is a great album. Basically, I go through a mental roller coaster when I think an album is  as good as the secular music of the same style.

Yeah, I like Saint and have all of their albums...but I never really thought Josh had a great voice and the early music was never top notch. I still liked them...mostly due to them being Christian and not having a lot of choices....but they could never hold a candlestick talent-wise to Judas Priest or Iron Maiden. Never. 

A lot of it is just that many of us always felt that Christian bands were like a part of our family...so we didn't hold them to the same standards as we would for an "outsider" (secular). 

Even back in the 80s, certain Christian artists that we consider great I was embarrassed of when my friends heard them because they were so weak vocally compared to bands like Ratt, Motley, Def Leppard, Maiden, etc etc. Bands like Jerusalem, Daniel Band, Bride, Saint, these are all bands that I loved but were viewed to be a lot better by myself (and a lot of Christians) than they really are.

It isn't due to them singing about Christ that kept them from being more popular with the mainstream, which is what Christian fans will try and tell you, it was talent, or actually a lack of talent...pure and simple. Stryper proved that you could sing about Jesus and still achieve mainstream success.
I couldn't disagree more.

Using your examples, every time I listen to Saint, I always wonder what do they lack in comparison with Maiden and Judas Priest. The only answer I can find is that both Maiden and Priest were pioneers in their styles. Besides that, maybe their financial resources for album production and distribution were much better. But just it. I always end these kind of comparison by thinking how some bands can be overrated.

I am a BIG fan of Stryper, but that is a great example of overrated band in christian metal. They are undoubtedly the most famous christian band out there, even though you can find, at least, a dozen christian bands that are much better than Stryper is.

The quantity of sales doesn't match how good the band is. It is not that logical.


Vocals and songwriting are the biggest areas that I always felt that most Christian bands took a back seat to secular bands.

Like I said, I always loved Saint. But I think it is an injustice to Halford to compare the two. Just like Mike Lee is no Bruce Dickinson..not even close....and yet I am a BC fan and not a Maiden fan.

I think Christians tend to judge "Christian" artists with a lot of bias and make them out to be better than they actually are.

Bands like Stryper and Whitecross are definitely two bands I think have / had the talent to compete against anyone. Just not many like them.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Candlemass on Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:46 pm

I'll take some Saint lp's over a few Priest offerings any day! I certainly don't think Josh is a better singer than Rob, but it's no injustice to compare the two. As for "Rattcross"...

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by metaldude on Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:03 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:Vocals and songwriting are the biggest areas that I always felt that most Christian bands took a back seat to secular bands.

I disagree on the vocalists. Michael Sweet and Dale Thompson both have distinct sounding voices, as does Glenn Kaiser, who I think has a great blues voice. Another unique voice was Guy Ritter. Who knows what would have happened had he not left music altogether. If we're going to criticize Mike Lee for sounding like Bruce Dickinson, then we have to criticize every singer who hits a high note for imitating Rob Halford. Or was Halford imitating Mercury? Or were they all imitating Plant?
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Friday13th on Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:27 pm

Mike Lee is a Dickinson knock off, bro. It's not like one person just came up with this comparison. People notice all the time. Plant is also less original than he's given credit, though he does have a good variety of styles. This is proof though. "Whole Lotta Love"...er..."You Need Loving" by the Small Faces.



Ian Gillan is another great, but no one touches Halford imo. The guy from Saint doesn't sound like Halford (not half as good anyway) so I agree that comparison is kind of silly.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:42 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:
Neal Morse Code wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:
Neal Morse Code wrote:Back to the opening question: no, the only that truly sucks is the thread title and its inane, hypothetical question.


Then be quite and move on if you don't like it ..pretty simple really. No one forces you to read a thread if you don't like it,
that's one of the great things about forums. Lots of topics and lots of opinions....you don't need to agree or like them all.
Unless you're a mod, don't restrict my freedom of speech.  If you come out swinging at folks and they swing back, don't whine about it. 

Try a little tact next time.  It works much better.


Whatever dude...no one made a comment about you since I was never a fan to begin with, so it didn't really concern you. 

Again, if you don't like a topic, stay out.

And telling you to go pound sand isn't whining. Get a dictionary and look it up.
How about taking your douchebag cyber-bullying and shove it instead?   

If you don't like your topic questioned, maybe you need to learn to zip it.  

Internet tyrant--go grab your thesaurus and look it up.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:46 pm

Neal Morse Code wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:
Neal Morse Code wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:
Neal Morse Code wrote:Back to the opening question: no, the only that truly sucks is the thread title and its inane, hypothetical question.


Then be quite and move on if you don't like it ..pretty simple really. No one forces you to read a thread if you don't like it,
that's one of the great things about forums. Lots of topics and lots of opinions....you don't need to agree or like them all.
Unless you're a mod, don't restrict my freedom of speech.  If you come out swinging at folks and they swing back, don't whine about it. 

Try a little tact next time.  It works much better.


Whatever dude...no one made a comment about you since I was never a fan to begin with, so it didn't really concern you. 

Again, if you don't like a topic, stay out.

And telling you to go pound sand isn't whining. Get a dictionary and look it up.
How about taking your douchebag cyber-bullying and shove it instead?   

If you don't like your topic questioned, maybe you need to learn to zip it.  

Internet tyrant--go grab your thesaurus and look it up.


Go away loser man...

I've already had several people who have messaged me asking what your problem is, but we know you have always been like this.

I have no problems with someone questioning my opinion, but blowhards like you who come in for no other reason but to post BS need to just go..far far away.

Hit the street, man

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:58 pm

metaldude wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:Vocals and songwriting are the biggest areas that I always felt that most Christian bands took a back seat to secular bands.

I disagree on the vocalists. Michael Sweet and Dale Thompson both have distinct sounding voices, as does Glenn Kaiser, who I think has a great blues voice. Another unique voice was Guy Ritter. Who knows what would have happened had he not left music altogether. If we're going to criticize Mike Lee for sounding like Bruce Dickinson, then we have to criticize every singer who hits a high note for imitating Rob Halford. Or was Halford imitating Mercury? Or were they all imitating Plant?


Not criticizing Lee, at all. I was actually criticizing the fans who try and put him on the same level as Dickinson. Saying they have a similar style is one thing, saying he patterns himself after Bruce is one thing, saying he is anywhere near as good is another..IMO. And I actually LIKE Barren Cross. I am just being real.

Dale Thompson's voice got better as he got older. His voice on the early stuff, which is what I was referring to, I think was vastly overrated.

Like I said, it was actually embarrassing to see how my friends reacted to some of these Christian metal bands...not due to lyrical content..but due to the way they sounded. Yet I kept listening, like the good little Christian should do. I was blinded into thinking I shouldn't expect the same level of musicianship from a Christian band as I would a secular band....that because they are Christian they are automatically worthy of listening too.

Kaiser had/has a great voice....I will never take a shot at his voice..ever...
Plus the dude is just cool.


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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:08 pm

Friday13th wrote:Mike Lee is a Dickinson knock off, bro. It's not like one person just came up with this comparison. People notice all the time. Plant is also less original than he's given credit, though he does have a good variety of styles. This is proof though. "Whole Lotta Love"...er..."You Need Loving" by the Small Faces.

Ian Gillan is another great, but no one touches Halford imo. The guy from Saint doesn't sound like Halford (not half as good anyway) so I agree that comparison is kind of silly.


I have to agree with all your points...

Man, where is the fun in agreeing  Razz Razz Razz ???

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:15 pm

Candlemass wrote:I'll take some Saint lp's over a few Priest offerings any day! I certainly don't think Josh is a better singer than Rob, but it's no injustice to compare the two. As for "Rattcross"...



Hey, I own all of Saint's cds.....and none of Judas Priest (anymore, that is, used to own a lot).

When Josh hits the higher levels he sounds a little like Rob, and he sounded really good...but I never thought Josh sang at those levels enough. When he wasn't hitting those higher levels, I thought his voice didn't sound very good at all. Not early on, at least. It got better.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:20 pm

I always think it is funny that a lot of people think that if they like something, then it must be good.

That isn't true.

People like things that suck all the time.

Look at Plan 9 From Outer Space. Regarded as the worst movie of all time. Yet thousands like it. The movie still sucks though, no matter how many people like it.

I love Godzilla movies... But I fully admit they suck when you look at them overall. Still love them though.

A lot of Godzilla fans will try to make the movies better than what they are...I however accept them for what they are. Bad movies that I like anyway.

A lot of music is the same way.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by H.M. Murdock on Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:29 pm

Speaking of bad movies, Murdock approves of cheesy 80's action films with stars like Seagal, Lundgren, and Van Damme, and even some C-movies.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Friday13th on Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:30 pm

lol I have a friend who loves all the Godzilla movies...ironically his taste in music is impeccable.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:18 am

He Already Left wrote:I always think it is funny that a lot of people think that if they like something, then it must be good.

That isn't true.

People like things that suck all the time.


A lot of music is the same way.
You can only speak for your yourself...

I assure you that I am very selective about what I listen to, as well as to what I watch, it doesn't matter whether we are talking about movies, TV shows or a youtube video.

Of course, maybe I can show you many things I like that you might state as garbage, but if I enjoy something, that is because I think it is good indeed. I would never say that something I like sucks.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:41 am

He Already Left wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:
Soldier777 wrote:I edited the my post above. In continuing with various bands, I can see when some people said they were into a certain band or album like Messiah Prophet or Bloodgood and after not listening to it for years and picking up and listening to it again recently - it don't have that same novelty. I don't take that necessarily as bands not being good, but perhaps we grow out of bands that we were once into. I find that when I got back into Saint around 2004 and started buying their CDs, I wondered about the "cheese factor" of their music and stage performance - even thought it is more modest, low key than their secular peers. Then you look at Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and I think - Saint is no less cheesy then these guys. Even on the same album like Time's End, I wonder a song like Primed and Ready is subpar but Steel Killer is outstanding and brilliant. Now, I think Time's End is a great album. Basically, I go through a mental roller coaster when I think an album is  as good as the secular music of the same style.

Yeah, I like Saint and have all of their albums...but I never really thought Josh had a great voice and the early music was never top notch. I still liked them...mostly due to them being Christian and not having a lot of choices....but they could never hold a candlestick talent-wise to Judas Priest or Iron Maiden. Never. 

A lot of it is just that many of us always felt that Christian bands were like a part of our family...so we didn't hold them to the same standards as we would for an "outsider" (secular). 

Even back in the 80s, certain Christian artists that we consider great I was embarrassed of when my friends heard them because they were so weak vocally compared to bands like Ratt, Motley, Def Leppard, Maiden, etc etc. Bands like Jerusalem, Daniel Band, Bride, Saint, these are all bands that I loved but were viewed to be a lot better by myself (and a lot of Christians) than they really are.

It isn't due to them singing about Christ that kept them from being more popular with the mainstream, which is what Christian fans will try and tell you, it was talent, or actually a lack of talent...pure and simple. Stryper proved that you could sing about Jesus and still achieve mainstream success.
I couldn't disagree more.

Using your examples, every time I listen to Saint, I always wonder what do they lack in comparison with Maiden and Judas Priest. The only answer I can find is that both Maiden and Priest were pioneers in their styles. Besides that, maybe their financial resources for album production and distribution were much better. But just it. I always end these kind of comparison by thinking how some bands can be overrated.

I am a BIG fan of Stryper, but that is a great example of overrated band in christian metal. They are undoubtedly the most famous christian band out there, even though you can find, at least, a dozen christian bands that are much better than Stryper is.

The quantity of sales doesn't match how good the band is. It is not that logical.


Vocals and songwriting are the biggest areas that I always felt that most Christian bands took a back seat to secular bands.

Like I said, I always loved Saint. But I think it is an injustice to Halford to compare the two. Just like Mike Lee is no Bruce Dickinson..not even close....and yet I am a BC fan and not a Maiden fan.

I think Christians tend to judge "Christian" artists with a lot of bias and make them out to be better than they actually are.

Bands like Stryper and Whitecross are definitely two bands I think have / had the talent to compete against anyone. Just not many like them.
This is not a fair argument.
I can say that you judge with a lot of bias, as you follow the comercial tendencies. You are using a unfair logic: If it is popular, it is good. I would say that this is not how it works. Maybe I would say it is the opposite as I can't stand any  band with comercial appealing.

The only thing I say that christian metal is undoubtedly better than secular is on the lyrics. Apart from that, both have pros and cons. What do I often listen to? It depends on what I am in the mood for.

Besides having great singers such as Dickson and Halford (you can say they are the best singers ever, it is ok, it is your opinion), when you are generally speaking, you have to take into account more than two of your favorite singers. Why don't you put in your comments some awful singers such as Ozzy and Mustaine? After all, weare comparing different scenes, not only a few bands.
I can't judge Dickson and Mike Lee, as I barely know their works, but why don't you compare Ozzy with Les Carlsen?
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by metaldude on Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:07 am

Friday13th wrote:Mike Lee is a Dickinson knock off, bro.

I never said he doesn't sound like Dickinson. Some of my favorite "Maiden" tunes are written by Barren Cross. What I was saying is it doesn't make him less of a talent.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:17 am

Thiago-Brazil wrote:
He Already Left wrote:I always think it is funny that a lot of people think that if they like something, then it must be good.

That isn't true.

People like things that suck all the time.


A lot of music is the same way.
You can only speak for your yourself...

I assure you that I am very selective about what I listen to, as well as to what I watch, it doesn't matter whether we are talking about movies, TV shows or a youtube video.

Of course, maybe I can show you many things I like that you might state as garbage, but if I enjoy something, that is because I think it is good indeed. I would never say that something I like sucks.

A lot of people can't look at something they like objectively.  Razz

Fans of cheesy movies usually get it (except Godzilla fans)...they like bad stuff and admit it...lol
 
There have been videos posted here before that the whole reason the video was posted because it sucked sooooo bad. Yet, I guarantee you, somewhere out there is some small group of people that think it is extremely awesome.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:38 am

Thiago-Brazil wrote:
He Already Left wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:
Soldier777 wrote:I edited the my post above. In continuing with various bands, I can see when some people said they were into a certain band or album like Messiah Prophet or Bloodgood and after not listening to it for years and picking up and listening to it again recently - it don't have that same novelty. I don't take that necessarily as bands not being good, but perhaps we grow out of bands that we were once into. I find that when I got back into Saint around 2004 and started buying their CDs, I wondered about the "cheese factor" of their music and stage performance - even thought it is more modest, low key than their secular peers. Then you look at Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and I think - Saint is no less cheesy then these guys. Even on the same album like Time's End, I wonder a song like Primed and Ready is subpar but Steel Killer is outstanding and brilliant. Now, I think Time's End is a great album. Basically, I go through a mental roller coaster when I think an album is  as good as the secular music of the same style.

Yeah, I like Saint and have all of their albums...but I never really thought Josh had a great voice and the early music was never top notch. I still liked them...mostly due to them being Christian and not having a lot of choices....but they could never hold a candlestick talent-wise to Judas Priest or Iron Maiden. Never. 

A lot of it is just that many of us always felt that Christian bands were like a part of our family...so we didn't hold them to the same standards as we would for an "outsider" (secular). 

Even back in the 80s, certain Christian artists that we consider great I was embarrassed of when my friends heard them because they were so weak vocally compared to bands like Ratt, Motley, Def Leppard, Maiden, etc etc. Bands like Jerusalem, Daniel Band, Bride, Saint, these are all bands that I loved but were viewed to be a lot better by myself (and a lot of Christians) than they really are.

It isn't due to them singing about Christ that kept them from being more popular with the mainstream, which is what Christian fans will try and tell you, it was talent, or actually a lack of talent...pure and simple. Stryper proved that you could sing about Jesus and still achieve mainstream success.
I couldn't disagree more.

Using your examples, every time I listen to Saint, I always wonder what do they lack in comparison with Maiden and Judas Priest. The only answer I can find is that both Maiden and Priest were pioneers in their styles. Besides that, maybe their financial resources for album production and distribution were much better. But just it. I always end these kind of comparison by thinking how some bands can be overrated.

I am a BIG fan of Stryper, but that is a great example of overrated band in christian metal. They are undoubtedly the most famous christian band out there, even though you can find, at least, a dozen christian bands that are much better than Stryper is.

The quantity of sales doesn't match how good the band is. It is not that logical.


Vocals and songwriting are the biggest areas that I always felt that most Christian bands took a back seat to secular bands.

Like I said, I always loved Saint. But I think it is an injustice to Halford to compare the two. Just like Mike Lee is no Bruce Dickinson..not even close....and yet I am a BC fan and not a Maiden fan.

I think Christians tend to judge "Christian" artists with a lot of bias and make them out to be better than they actually are.

Bands like Stryper and Whitecross are definitely two bands I think have / had the talent to compete against anyone. Just not many like them.
This is not a fair argument.
I can say that you judge with a lot of bias, as you follow the comercial tendencies. You are using a unfair logic: If it is popular, it is good. I would say that this is not how it works. Maybe I would say it is the opposite as I can't stand any  band with comercial appealing.

The only thing I say that christian metal is undoubtedly better than secular is on the lyrics. Apart from that, both have pros and cons. What do I often listen to? It depends on what I am in the mood for.

Besides having great singers such as Dickson and Halford (you can say they are the best singers ever, it is ok, it is your opinion), when you are generally speaking, you have to take into account more than two of your favorite singers. Why don't you put in your comments some awful singers such as Ozzy and Mustaine? After all, weare comparing different scenes, not only a few bands.
I can't judge Dickson and Mike Lee, as I barely know their works, but why don't you compare Ozzy with Les Carlsen?


Ozzy > Les   
There, I compared them. Love Les...I listen to Bloodgood.. I no longer listen to Ozzy...but I still think Ozzy's voice is better. Have you ever listened to the Bark At The Moon album in full?

I never said Dickinson and Halford were the best ever, btw. Ronnie James Dio is, IMO, one of the greatest ever.

You act like I am the first one to ever say that a lot of Christian bands are nowhere near as good as their secular counterparts.

It has actually even been discussed here before (though many moons ago). It's a known issue.

Some reasons why that have been discussed before that I agreed with:
.... Some Christian bands, especially those with a heart for ministry, don't live and breathe music the way secular bands do. Someone who has devoted their whole life, every minute, to playing an instrument is probably going to achieve a higher level of skill than someone who keeps it in perspective and refuses to make music their god.
.... At one time, especially in the 80s, you didn't have to work as hard to get signed to a Christian label as you would a secular label because there was less competition. A band that has to compete against a slew of bands to even get noticed is going to hone their craft more.
.... The talent pool to piece together a Christian band is thinner than the secular pool. If you need to replace a drummer (just for example) in a Christian band, you may not be able to find a talented Christian drummer right away. So, either you replace him with a non-Christian who is willing to play in a Christian band or maybe you go with a less talented drummer because he is a Christian.
.... It has been well documented that some bands weren't able to get signed to a secular label, so they switched to Christian and got signed.


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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:39 am

H.M. Murdock wrote:Speaking of bad movies, Murdock approves of cheesy 80's action films with stars like Seagal, Lundgren, and Van Damme, and even some C-movies.


See...you get it...  lol

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:43 am

metaldude wrote:
Friday13th wrote:Mike Lee is a Dickinson knock off, bro.

I never said he doesn't sound like Dickinson. Some of my favorite "Maiden" tunes are written by Barren Cross. What I was saying is it doesn't make him less of a talent.


You are right..sounding like someone else doesn't mean they are less of a talent. 

In that particular case, I don't think Mike Lee is as good as Dickinson, but I am not downgrading his talent because he sounds similar to him, I just happen to think Bruce is better.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by sentient 6 on Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:57 am

Hey, wasn't this on Slayers Hell Awaits ?


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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by sentient 6 on Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:01 pm

There is a difference between being technically proficient and being original and creative. using your influences to create your own sound, or just using a complete formula to your music. Many of the bands talked about are talented, but they just are not very creative. Now, that's not necessarily good or bad but its just the truth.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:09 pm

He Already Left wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:
He Already Left wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:
Soldier777 wrote:I edited the my post above. In continuing with various bands, I can see when some people said they were into a certain band or album like Messiah Prophet or Bloodgood and after not listening to it for years and picking up and listening to it again recently - it don't have that same novelty. I don't take that necessarily as bands not being good, but perhaps we grow out of bands that we were once into. I find that when I got back into Saint around 2004 and started buying their CDs, I wondered about the "cheese factor" of their music and stage performance - even thought it is more modest, low key than their secular peers. Then you look at Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and I think - Saint is no less cheesy then these guys. Even on the same album like Time's End, I wonder a song like Primed and Ready is subpar but Steel Killer is outstanding and brilliant. Now, I think Time's End is a great album. Basically, I go through a mental roller coaster when I think an album is  as good as the secular music of the same style.

Yeah, I like Saint and have all of their albums...but I never really thought Josh had a great voice and the early music was never top notch. I still liked them...mostly due to them being Christian and not having a lot of choices....but they could never hold a candlestick talent-wise to Judas Priest or Iron Maiden. Never. 

A lot of it is just that many of us always felt that Christian bands were like a part of our family...so we didn't hold them to the same standards as we would for an "outsider" (secular). 

Even back in the 80s, certain Christian artists that we consider great I was embarrassed of when my friends heard them because they were so weak vocally compared to bands like Ratt, Motley, Def Leppard, Maiden, etc etc. Bands like Jerusalem, Daniel Band, Bride, Saint, these are all bands that I loved but were viewed to be a lot better by myself (and a lot of Christians) than they really are.

It isn't due to them singing about Christ that kept them from being more popular with the mainstream, which is what Christian fans will try and tell you, it was talent, or actually a lack of talent...pure and simple. Stryper proved that you could sing about Jesus and still achieve mainstream success.
I couldn't disagree more.

Using your examples, every time I listen to Saint, I always wonder what do they lack in comparison with Maiden and Judas Priest. The only answer I can find is that both Maiden and Priest were pioneers in their styles. Besides that, maybe their financial resources for album production and distribution were much better. But just it. I always end these kind of comparison by thinking how some bands can be overrated.

I am a BIG fan of Stryper, but that is a great example of overrated band in christian metal. They are undoubtedly the most famous christian band out there, even though you can find, at least, a dozen christian bands that are much better than Stryper is.

The quantity of sales doesn't match how good the band is. It is not that logical.


Vocals and songwriting are the biggest areas that I always felt that most Christian bands took a back seat to secular bands.

Like I said, I always loved Saint. But I think it is an injustice to Halford to compare the two. Just like Mike Lee is no Bruce Dickinson..not even close....and yet I am a BC fan and not a Maiden fan.

I think Christians tend to judge "Christian" artists with a lot of bias and make them out to be better than they actually are.

Bands like Stryper and Whitecross are definitely two bands I think have / had the talent to compete against anyone. Just not many like them.
This is not a fair argument.
I can say that you judge with a lot of bias, as you follow the comercial tendencies. You are using a unfair logic: If it is popular, it is good. I would say that this is not how it works. Maybe I would say it is the opposite as I can't stand any  band with comercial appealing.

The only thing I say that christian metal is undoubtedly better than secular is on the lyrics. Apart from that, both have pros and cons. What do I often listen to? It depends on what I am in the mood for.

Besides having great singers such as Dickson and Halford (you can say they are the best singers ever, it is ok, it is your opinion), when you are generally speaking, you have to take into account more than two of your favorite singers. Why don't you put in your comments some awful singers such as Ozzy and Mustaine? After all, weare comparing different scenes, not only a few bands.
I can't judge Dickson and Mike Lee, as I barely know their works, but why don't you compare Ozzy with Les Carlsen?


Ozzy > Les   
There, I compared them. Love Les...I listen to Bloodgood.. I no longer listen to Ozzy...but I still think Ozzy's voice is better. Have you ever listened to the Bark At The Moon album in full?

I never said Dickinson and Halford were the best ever, btw. Ronnie James Dio is, IMO, one of the greatest ever.

You act like I am the first one to ever say that a lot of Christian bands are nowhere near as good as their secular counterparts.

It has actually even been discussed here before (though many moons ago). It's a known issue.

Some reasons why that have been discussed before that I agreed with:
.... Some Christian bands, especially those with a heart for ministry, don't live and breathe music the way secular bands do. Someone who has devoted their whole life, every minute, to playing an instrument is probably going to achieve a higher level of skill than someone who keeps it in perspective and refuses to make music their god.
.... At one time, especially in the 80s, you didn't have to work as hard to get signed to a Christian label as you would a secular label because there was less competition. A band that has to compete against a slew of bands to even get noticed is going to hone their craft more.
.... The talent pool to piece together a Christian band is thinner than the secular pool. If you need to replace a drummer (just for example) in a Christian band, you may not be able to find a talented Christian drummer right away. So, either you replace him with a non-Christian who is willing to play in a Christian band or maybe you go with a less talented drummer because he is a Christian.
.... It has been well documented that some bands weren't able to get signed to a secular label, so they switched to Christian and got signed.
Ozzy isn't even a good singer, no matter whether he devoted his life in being a singer or not.

Regarding your arguments:

"Some Christian bands, especially those with a heart for ministry, don't live and breathe music the way secular bands do. Someone who has devoted their whole life, every minute, to playing an instrument is probably going to achieve a higher level of skill than someone who keeps it in perspective and refuses to make music their god."

I agree partially with this one, especially with the part "PROBABLY". As you see, it's not a logical science. And there are many musicians in christian metal that make their living in music industry, teaching music classes, selling instruments, such as Ken Tamplin and Bob Hartman. And anyway, how can you learn creativity, for instance? 

And you know, there are some "music devoters" that couldn't even record an album properly due to alchool and drugs effects. And you know, thisis quite commom in secular metal. So, nobody is a 100% devoted to something.

"At one time, especially in the 80s, you didn't have to work as hard to get signed to a Christian label as you would a secular label because there was less competition. A band that has to compete against a slew of bands to even get noticed is going to hone their craft more."

Ok, but what is the difference between a band that got rejected from a secular label and was accepted in a smaller secular label? 
Of course, everybody wants to get signed for the biggest labels, but that is not for everybody. There are small labels on secular market, as well. This is all about being in the right place at the right time, not just quality. What about Deliverance that had had a proposal from a bigger label and couldn't attend, as they were stuck with a long contract at Intense Records (The tried to get rid of Intense Records, that is why they included the "jokes"in What a Joke album)?

"The talent pool to piece together a Christian band is thinner than the secular pool. If you need to replace a drummer (just for example) in a Christian band, you may not be able to find a talented Christian drummer right away. So, either you replace him with a non-Christian who is willing to play in a Christian band or maybe you go with a less talented drummer because he is a Christian."

Of course, the bands with better distribution have access to better musicians, as they want a better job, with better wages and in a bigger spotlight, but again, that is not a question of christian and non-christian, this is a question of small and big.

Remember that we have small bands and small labels in secular metal.

"It has been well documented that some bands weren't able to get signed to a secular label, so they switched to Christian and got signed."


This is the exception, not the rule. And what about Mass that own their fame mostly to Michael Sweet who helped the band to get signed on the label they were in the 80's? And what about they using cross in their artcovers, even though the band is not a christian band? (I am not criticizing, I love Mass and their lyrics doesn't hurt my christian faith). So, does Mass sucks because of it?


It has also been documented that some secular labels ask the christian bands to switch "Jesus" for "the big light". I know a few brazilian bands that have refused signing in a secular label because of it.

So, there are cases and cases...
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:12 pm

From your comments above, you are assuming that EVERY secular band is big and EVERY christian band is small.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:26 pm

Thiago, 

I have always liked talking with you in the forum, so this isn't personal. But I gotta tell you, I really don't understand some of your responses to my comment. 

"A" level bands in the secular world are not the same as what is considered A level talent in Christian music. Most "A" level Christian bands are usually considered no more than B level or C level talent in the secular world. 

Anyway, you can disagree all you want..that's what a forum is about.

To go one step further...I now think a lot of rock / metal (secular or Christian)  is inferior music when compared to the big picture. This was actually where my mind was when I started off this thread.

Having finally taken the time to broaden my world and listen to some jazz, orchestra pieces and some classic music, I find there is an element in that style that makes me view a lot of rock and metal as nothing more than annoying noise. Like a child banging on pots and pans.

Not saying I will stop listening to or even loving some rock / metal bands, I'm just saying that even though I still like a lot of it I no longer believe it is a superior form of music.

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by WildWorld on Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:41 pm

He Already Left wrote:

Look at Plan 9 From Outer Space. Regarded as the worst movie of all time. Yet thousands like it. The movie still sucks though, no matter how many people like it.
Most of the people who "like" it are actually the ones who enjoy snarking on it and making fun of it. Same reason Troll 2, Birdemic, and The Room have so many fans. As for me, i go by the "there are two types of music, stuff i like and stuff that sucks" school of music (i usually listen to music as background noise anyway, yeah, i want background noise that i like, but the point remains, and the stuff i put on my mp3 player, for the most part, is the music i like to sing along to). I dont analyze the "big picture" of music or all that though, i can deal with stuff being "just ok".

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:50 pm

WildWorld wrote:
He Already Left wrote:

Look at Plan 9 From Outer Space. Regarded as the worst movie of all time. Yet thousands like it. The movie still sucks though, no matter how many people like it.
Most of the people who "like" it are actually the ones who enjoy snarking on it and making fun of it. Same reason Troll 2, Birdemic, and The Room have so many fans. As for me, i go by the "there are two types of music, stuff i like and stuff that sucks" school of music (i usually listen to music as background noise anyway, yeah, i want background noise that i like, but the point remains, and the stuff i put on my mp3 player, for the most part, is the music i like to sing along to). I dont analyze the "big picture" of music or all that though, i can deal with stuff being "just ok".


And that's ok   Thumbs up



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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Friday13th on Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:17 pm

He Already Left wrote:
WildWorld wrote:
He Already Left wrote:

Look at Plan 9 From Outer Space. Regarded as the worst movie of all time. Yet thousands like it. The movie still sucks though, no matter how many people like it.
Most of the people who "like" it are actually the ones who enjoy snarking on it and making fun of it. Same reason Troll 2, Birdemic, and The Room have so many fans. As for me, i go by the "there are two types of music, stuff i like and stuff that sucks" school of music (i usually listen to music as background noise anyway, yeah, i want background noise that i like, but the point remains, and the stuff i put on my mp3 player, for the most part, is the music i like to sing along to). I dont analyze the "big picture" of music or all that though, i can deal with stuff being "just ok".


And that's ok   Thumbs up



Razz

Yeah, I'm definitely a "big picture" kinda guy. I gotta know who influenced whom, who came up with what, and why these here and not those there are the best of the genre. This approach could lead to madness, but I don't care at the moment. king  I'm sticking to it as long as I'm entertained by the results.

BTW what kind of jazz you digging right now?
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:42 pm

Friday13th wrote:
He Already Left wrote:
WildWorld wrote:
He Already Left wrote:

Look at Plan 9 From Outer Space. Regarded as the worst movie of all time. Yet thousands like it. The movie still sucks though, no matter how many people like it.
Most of the people who "like" it are actually the ones who enjoy snarking on it and making fun of it. Same reason Troll 2, Birdemic, and The Room have so many fans. As for me, i go by the "there are two types of music, stuff i like and stuff that sucks" school of music (i usually listen to music as background noise anyway, yeah, i want background noise that i like, but the point remains, and the stuff i put on my mp3 player, for the most part, is the music i like to sing along to). I dont analyze the "big picture" of music or all that though, i can deal with stuff being "just ok".


And that's ok   Thumbs up



Razz

Yeah, I'm definitely a "big picture" kinda guy. I gotta know who influenced whom, who came up with what, and why these here and not those there are the best of the genre. This approach could lead to madness, but I don't care at the moment. king  I'm sticking to it as long as I'm entertained by the results.

BTW what kind of jazz you digging right now?


Being new to it, I am starting with the basics. I really like the jazz instrumentals more than anything else. Live jazz is also incredible. I am finding that recordings don't do it justice.

Charlie Parker is also an excellent example of what I am getting into right now. I also really like Lee Ritenour and Dave Grusin.


I am a newbie..have any recommendations? 


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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Friday13th on Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:01 pm

Charlie Parker is great! I'm just starting to get into that era of jazz from about 1940-1958. It's true, most critics agree the albums took a while to capture the magic. 1959 is the year to go with albums, though. Davis, Mingus, Brubeck, and Coleman released arguably  their best works. My fave is probably Mingus' Ah Um, but Brubeck's singles that year are still my favorite jazz songs. Coincidentally, the album artworks are remarkably similar  Razz



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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by messiaen77 on Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:18 pm

MINGUS IS AWESOME!!!!!!



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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by Friday13th on Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:35 pm

I know right? Love "Moanin." It's much better than the Art Blakey jazz song by the same name. It reminds me of some Nintendo Mario song Razz Anyways, Mingus has the perfect combination of melody, harmony, structure, and chemistry between all the instruments. I can appreciate some more improvisational or solo-centric jazz like Coleman or Coltrane, but I prefer when if feels more classically structured and with every member getting to shine some.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Post by exact33 on Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:04 pm

some great jazz mentioned here. I would also offer up these as some good stuff to listen to:

Thelonious Monk Quartet - Misterioso
Cannonball Adderley - Somthin' Else
Horace Silver Quintet - Song for My Father
Ford, Robben - Handful of Blues
Hancock, Herbie - Mwandishi
Henderson, Joe - Page One
Mobley, Hank - No Room for Squares
Shorter, Wayne - Speak No Evil

As for older music not as good as i thought it once was I think it is more of a tastes changing than anything else. I have been going back ripping my cd collection to mp3 and there is a lot of stuff that is as every bit as good now to my ears as it was when i first got it and some stuff that isnt what i thought - and that is not limited to Christian stuff vs. Secular stuff.
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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

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