Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:25 am

As a fan of 80's metal, especially Christian, I have collected a lot of the "major" releases, independent releases, and of course demo recordings, over the years. Going though some of them yesterday, I stopped and thought for a minute about how much a lot of the music I like actually just really really sucks.

I guess I always graded it with a skewed view because they were Christian and because there was so little out there that I was desperate to find more. Thereby, I kind of forced myself into liking inferior music.

But man....so much of it is just bad.

The demos I have, for the most part, showcase bands that never made it for a reason. They stink. There are obviously some exceptions, like Irish, but not many. Yet I constantly hunted for these demos.....sometimes spending weeks looking for one or two in particular.

Even some of the "major" releases are just garbage. There are so few bands with talent, bands like Stryper, Whitecross, and Bloodgood are far and few between. But for every decent band like that, you have a bunch of bands like Tempest that should simply never have been allowed in the studio.

It's just funny how my tastes have changed soooo much recently. I find myself getting pickier and pickier about the 80's stuff I tolerate.

Of course, I have been getting into classical and orchestra music a lot recently too...almost exclusively...so maybe my tastes are going to continue to change to the point where I don't like metal/hard rock at all. Who knows? I still like new Stryper, GX, Armageddon USA, Worldview, etc....so maybe I will at least hold on to those bands.

Anyone else go through this radical of a change?

by deathisgain Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:36 am

I've always been very picky about what I buy, even when I was younger, so the answer for me would be "no". I have very few turds (to me) in my collection.

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:48 am

deathisgain wrote:I've always been very picky about what I buy, even when I was younger, so the answer for me would be "no". I have very few turds (to me) in my collection.

I didn't think they were turd when I bought them though... Razz

(actually, I think deep down inside I really did)

by grandeped Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:49 pm

Everyone's opinion of what is bad or good is going to be different. I never found Irish to be that good, but Tempest had something about them that I liked (even if not perfect).

by Temple of Blood Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:00 pm

I don't think the music I like (now) sucks.

But yeah, my tastes changed a bit the better I got on guitar and vocals over the last 25 years or so.

by metaldude Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:11 pm

There was a time in the 80's where every band with a Marshall stack had a contract. There were some bands out there, Christian and secular alike, who had no business having contracts. One of the things that was really lacking in the 80's, mostly on the Christian side, was good producers. For example, the debut albums by Vengeance Rising and Deliverance. Both are excellent albums but Deliverance has a better sound to it, in my opinion, because of Bill Metoyer. The VR sounded more like a demo.

The other extreme, for me, would be the over-use of production to cover mediocre talent. There seems to be quite a bit of that going on, too.

by Soldier777 Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:48 pm

That is some what of a loaded question. Music, like beauty, is on the eye of the beholder. Yes, there are some subpar bands out there in rock, hard rock and heavy metal on both secular and Christian metal. In the 80's the market were saturated with commercial sounding bands that wanted to be the next KISS, Motley Crue or even Stryper. Out of 10 bands, perhaps only 2 or 3 of them were actually good.

Before 1986, there were only 7 or 8 Christian hard rock/metal bands, or at least bands that were on the heavier side of rock: Jerusalem, Leviticus, Daniel Band, Stryper, Rez Band, Saint, Messiah Prophet, Philadelphia, and Joshua (I may be forgetting a few) that had EPs and albums out. After 1986, apart from an independent EP, many others had contracts and released albums like White Cross, Barren Cross, Bloodgood, Shout, Stryken, Vengeance, Guardian, Holy Soldier, etc.

I find that when a new band would come out with an album in the 1980's, often times you didn't know how they would sound until you actually buy it. Sometimes you would buy a cassette and liked it at first and after you wondered why did I buy this - example: Tempest A Coming Storm. Other bands I bought the cassette and I couldn't get into the music like Philadelphia Search and Destroy and Stryken First Strike.

Most of the music I got into back then I am still into and have upgraded the cassettes to CDs. Also, with albums being remastered or rerecorded years later takes care of the production issues.

Also, it was said here on another thread that bands got signed to Christian labels and called them selves "Christian" because secular labels wouldn't sign them where they weren't good enough. I don't totally believe that where many bands on Christian bands are as good as their peers. Whether or not they are really Christian - you can tell by their fruits. If that was the case, how do you explain all the crappy secular glam bands that got signed in the 1980's?

I have gotten compliments from other friends saying they they liked some of the stuff in my collection. I still like the bands today that I have been into since 30+ years ago.

by pathogenics_cloned_twin83 Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:19 pm

I've become the opposite I think, I used to think so much the signed bands of the Christian 80's metal scene sucked, but I think I've become a bit more forgiving to some. There are still some I can't stand to listen to...

by Friday13th Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:42 pm

hmm...I had that moment about six years ago when I realized all my music was very dull and generic. That was essentially year 0 for my music taste, but I haven't really "recanted" much since then. I might enjoy some stuff more or less, but almost all the music I've compiled these six years has held some value to me.

by eatbugs Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:34 pm

metaldude wrote:One of the things that was really lacking in the 80's, mostly on the Christian side, was good producers.

What he said.

There's a lot of my 80's and 90's Christian rock and metal collection that doesn't sound as good as their mainstream counterparts. There are exceptions of course but in manycases it's not musical talent but production that's the problem.

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:22 pm

Soldier777 wrote:Also, it was said here on another thread that bands got signed to Christian labels and called them selves "Christian" because secular labels would sign them where they weren't good enough. I don't totally believe that where many bands on Christian bands are as good as their peers. Whether or not they are really Christian - you can tell by their fruits. If that was the case, how do you explain all the crappy secular glam bands that got signed in the 1980's?

That is pretty common knowledge that some bands "faked" their Christianity to get deals with Christian labels.

Secular labels had sooooo many bands at their disposal, while Christian labels had relatively few, and Christian fans were buying up anything and everything that came out. So it was pretty common for a band to choose to try and avoid the intense competition it took to get a secular deal and go for the easier-to-get-signed Christian label.

Go look at a site like Retrospect Records to see just a small sample of some of the B level secular bands that never made it back then. Most of them blow away the A level Christian bands (bands like Stryper and Whitecross are exceptions).

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:23 pm

Friday13th wrote:hmm...I had that moment about six years ago when I realized all my music was very dull and generic. That was essentially year 0 for my music taste, but I haven't really "recanted" much since then. I might enjoy some stuff more or less, but almost all the music I've compiled these six years has held some value to me.

"all my music was very dull and generic"

Yep, that is where I am generally at

I think this may be my year 0

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:25 pm

metaldude wrote:One of the things that was really lacking in the 80's, mostly on the Christian side, was good producers.

The other extreme, for me, would be the over-use of production to cover mediocre talent. There seems to be quite a bit of that going on, too.

Both are good points, and true

by JPK72 Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:35 am

I had a friend who would buy everything, just because it was Christian Metal, saved me a lot of money because I knew what albums not to buy Laughing

by alldatndensum Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:27 am

I think that part of it is that we've changed. We've heard so much that we have grown very picky. Some of those early bands, whether Christian or otherwise, we loved because we were young and rebellious. There was something about that rawness that appealed to us then. Now, however, as we are aging, it just doesn't feel the same to listen to some of those same songs and we notice the flaws more.

Music is all about the feeling, folks, but just because the song moved you a certain way once before doesn't mean that it will always produce the same reaction. Some of my favorite bands that I used to listen to over and over I rarely listen to now for that same reason.

by timekeeper Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:01 am

Um...no.

by jusma Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:27 am

I have Tempest on CD and I just can't listen to it.. someone wanna buy it? Laughing

by MikeInFla Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:32 am

I have to agree. I remember finding Messiah Prophet on vinyl when it was first released. I had never heard it but I saw Pure Metal so I knew it was a Christian Band and I loved the cover art. I bought it, took it home and thought it was awesome. Years later (like last year probably) I was able to get a digital copy of it. While I still liked it, it wasn't as "awesome" as I once thought. The only older released that hold up for me are, as you said, Whitecross, Stryper, Saint, etc. Even Detonation, when it was reissued I was excited about it because I only had it on cassette back in the 80's. It was good to hear it again, and while it was good, it wasn't as awesome as I once thought it was, mainly because the original production was so thin. That is probably why "Dangerously Close" is my favorite by them because the production is so much better than what bands had in the 80's.

Eternal Ryte is another. I thought it was awesome when it was new and I ordered the Remastered version with bonus cuts from Roxx a few months ago. It wasn't as good as I remembered it and I actually liked the demo version on the CD better than the original release.

Rage Of Angels still sounds good too, I still enjoy that one from time to time.

by MikeInFla Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:36 am

Just go look here --- Some are still pretty decent sounding, the rest I can live without. I used to want all of the Pure Metal Releases and would blindly buy them on cassette in the 80's.

http://www.thecorroseum.org/labels/puremetal.html

by Blake Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:58 am

I have some music that I have always known was bad. But for the most part I like all my music and on the contrary when I hear alot of popular secular metal bands I often listen and think "man this actually sucks". There is something about honest, heartfelt music I guess that stands above meaningless secular music to me.

by d@v!d Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:31 am

Metal Blessing Radio wrote:I have some music that I have always known was bad. But for the most part I like all my music and on the contrary when I hear alot of popular secular metal bands I often listen and think "man this actually sucks". There is something about honest, heartfelt music I guess that stands above meaningless secular music to me.

by Friday13th Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:12 am

NoOneIsHere wrote:
Friday13th wrote:hmm...I had that moment about six years ago when I realized all my music was very dull and generic. That was essentially year 0 for my music taste, but I haven't really "recanted" much since then. I might enjoy some stuff more or less, but almost all the music I've compiled these six years has held some value to me.

"all my music was very dull and generic"

Yep, that is where I am generally at

I think this may be my year 0

That can be a good feeling if you know which direction to go! So do you have an idea of what music ISN'T "dull and generic" and will work for ya? See, I kinda knew my music wasn't super special and started noticing the similarities, how predictable it was etc. but it took me a while before I found something that WASN'T like that.

To clarify, I'm talking I was listening to mainstream Christian hard rock, rap and some secular radio rock bands. My favorite Christian artists were Tobymac, Pillar, Skillet, Red, Lecrae, and secular were 3 Doors Down, Breaking Benjamin, Three Days Grace...I even went to a Nickelback concert (though somehow, even silly me knew they were generic Razz

). But, it took me till I heard Metallica's "Master of Puppets" to be like "dude, these guys aren't trying to sound like anybody else...they just rule on their own terms."

I assume you're primarily referring to your Christian stuff being bad. My music collection is like 90% secular, so I can't say I'm an expert on this. If it makes you feel any better, I still think Christian metal has a good variety of music compared to any other Christian versions of genres. tongue

My favorite genre is progressive rock (primarily from the 70s), and it's because there is a huge spectrum of diversity from a band to band basis. Unfortunately, there are like 10 Christian prog bands I've even heard and possibly three that are decent enough to listen to imo (Neal Morse obviously being the crowned king). I have become a lot more picky, so merely "capable" or sound-alike bands don't cut it for me. My advice is to continue branching out into other forms of music like you've done with classical. My parents had me take piano lessons (knowledge that has really helped me discover what bands are doing musically) and I grew up hearing Baroque music a lot (talk about predictable!). However, then I've branched out into Romantic, 20th Century, and some really avant-garde stuff like Schoenberg and Stockhausen. I know this is a bad word around here...but J-A-Z-Z is very cool too and greatly varied if you dig in deep Thumbs up

by Soldier777 Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:50 pm

I edited the my post above. In continuing with various bands, I can see when some people said they were into a certain band or album like Messiah Prophet or Bloodgood and after not listening to it for years and picking up and listening to it again recently - it don't have that same novelty. I don't take that necessarily as bands not being good, but perhaps we grow out of bands that we were once into. I find that when I got back into Saint around 2004 and started buying their CDs, I wondered about the "cheese factor" of their music and stage performance - even thought it is more modest, low key than their secular peers. Then you look at Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and I think - Saint is no less cheesy then these guys. Even on the same album like Time's End, I wonder a song like Primed and Ready is subpar but Steel Killer is outstanding and brilliant. Now, I think Time's End is a great album. Basically, I go through a mental roller coaster when I think an album is as good as the secular music of the same style.

by strype53 Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:06 pm

I find myself in this boat of listening to bands I thought were awesome back in the day, but now not so much, but I have sometimes found myself on the other side of listening to a band that I did not like back them, but find myself liking them now.

by Guest Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:18 pm

Soldier777 wrote:I edited the my post above. In continuing with various bands, I can see when some people said they were into a certain band or album like Messiah Prophet or Bloodgood and after not listening to it for years and picking up and listening to it again recently - it don't have that same novelty. I don't take that necessarily as bands not being good, but perhaps we grow out of bands that we were once into. I find that when I got back into Saint around 2004 and started buying their CDs, I wondered about the "cheese factor" of their music and stage performance - even thought it is more modest, low key than their secular peers. Then you look at Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and I think - Saint is no less cheesy then these guys. Even on the same album like Time's End, I wonder a song like Primed and Ready is subpar but Steel Killer is outstanding and brilliant. Now, I think Time's End is a great album. Basically, I go through a mental roller coaster when I think an album is as good as the secular music of the same style.

Yeah, I like Saint and have all of their albums...but I never really thought Josh had a great voice and the early music was never top notch. I still liked them...mostly due to them being Christian and not having a lot of choices....but they could never hold a candlestick talent-wise to Judas Priest or Iron Maiden. Never.

A lot of it is just that many of us always felt that Christian bands were like a part of our family...so we didn't hold them to the same standards as we would for an "outsider" (secular).

Even back in the 80s, certain Christian artists that we consider great I was embarrassed of when my friends heard them because they were so weak vocally compared to bands like Ratt, Motley, Def Leppard, Maiden, etc etc. Bands like Jerusalem, Daniel Band, Bride, Saint, these are all bands that I loved but were viewed to be a lot better by myself (and a lot of Christians) than they really are.

It isn't due to them singing about Christ that kept them from being more popular with the mainstream, which is what Christian fans will try and tell you, it was talent, or actually a lack of talent...pure and simple. Stryper proved that you could sing about Jesus and still achieve mainstream success.

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Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

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Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?

Re: Did you ever realize how much of the music you love just simply sucks?