NIT PICKING ARTISTS

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NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD on Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:10 am

I have noticed after reading through many posts on this site that so many people are so hyper critical of bands whether it be not liking the vocals, don't like guitar or drum sound, the production is not quite good enough or the artwork the wrong colour etc etc.  Just because we don't like a particular style should we really publicly cut to pieces musicians who have tried to produce something close to their heart. As Christians should we be scrutinising artists material all the time and clobbering them in public with destructive critisism.  Surely as Christians we should be more encouraging?  I think sometimes we just don't get it?!!!
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:26 am

Judging the judgers eh?

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:28 am

My point is that judging is necessary in life and you just proved that.

What we need to focus on is righteous judging and not judging based on selfishness.

Now, as customers of a product, many of us have spent countless hundreds and thousands of dollars on this industry in the last 30-40 years. Certainly we have a say in the final product?

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by d@v!d on Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:55 am

HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD wrote:I have noticed after reading through many posts on this site that so many people are so hyper critical of bands whether it be not liking the vocals, don't like guitar or drum sound, the production is not quite good enough or the artwork the wrong colour etc etc.  Just because we don't like a particular style should we really publicly cut to pieces musicians who have tried to produce something close to their heart. As Christians should we be scrutinising artists material all the time and clobbering them in public with destructive critisism.  Surely as Christians we should be more encouraging?  I think sometimes we just don't get it?!!!
YES! Let's bless mediocrity! Preach it brotha!
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by d@v!d on Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:56 am

Speaking of mediocrity, I must confess that I like 80's and early 90's demos.
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:16 pm

HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD wrote:I have noticed after reading through many posts on this site that so many people are so hyper critical of bands whether it be not liking the vocals, don't like guitar or drum sound, the production is not quite good enough or the artwork the wrong colour etc etc.  Just because we don't like a particular style should we really publicly cut to pieces musicians who have tried to produce something close to their heart. As Christians should we be scrutinising artists material all the time and clobbering them in public with destructive critisism.  Surely as Christians we should be more encouraging?  I think sometimes we just don't get it?!!!


I think talking about things like whether you like their musical style or their vocals is perfectly normal.....and ok to do. You should be allowed to say you don't like a certain style, or artist, or album. And you should be allowed to talk about their overall ability and an album's production, too .... positive or negative (should never be hostile or outright rude about it though).

What I don't like is when musicians get criticized or over scrutinized for their personal beliefs or things they say.

I think the internet backlash (Facebook, forums, etc etc) when Michael Sweet said Stryper is not a Christian band was ridiculous. I think people getting on Ted Kirkpatrick about his animal activist beliefs is ridiculous.

It's just music.


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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Follower of Jesus on Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:18 pm

Adam - when we are as "into" our music as we all are, we obsess over the small things. We all have opinions and we discuss them. We talk about all aspects of the music, and yes, negative opinions are expressed. We're not cutting musicians to pieces. Almost every band that gets discussed on here has fans and detractors. I've not really seen here in a long time a thread about a band that everyone really hated. When artists put their work out there, they are taking the chance that it will not be liked. Us expressing that we don't like something is not wrong. If we were tearing into the artists as people, then you'd have a point. But I think you're off base with your criticism.
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Grindboy on Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:28 pm

We should be kind.  That's legit.  Especially if there's an artist here that's being spoken to directly, which occasionally happens

We should also be able to have and discuss honest opinions.  I believe that's the purpose of the board.

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Friday13th on Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:29 pm

This is the place to critique, honestly. There is some unneeded negativity no doubt. Praise is kind of meaningless if you give it all away without merit. I try give a little of both praise and criticism where appropriate, and for bands I can't stand I try not to even bring them up. I agree about the dramas over what artists have said. That gets out of hand sometimes.
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD on Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:33 pm

Adam wrote:  Judging the judgers eh?

I'm just standing up fo artists.   Monkey Biz
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by eatbugs on Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:35 pm

I try not to nitpick and when I do I try to do it constructively, remembering that a band could see the thread.  I also nitpick more when I like a band and they have set a standard.  Imagine if the next Stryper or Theocracy album is a dud.  Lots of fans on this forum would be disappointed - we're fans and like them and want good music from them that we know they can produce.  I want honest reviews of an artists work.  If it has flaws I want to know what they are so I can decide if it will bother me enough to not listen to and waste my money on.  This can be done constructively though.

Also, there's a certain practice very common among bands/labels that annoys me and I've debated starting a thread on it.  I haven't partly because of this very reason; but it's my right to and I don't think I would be wrong to do it.

I totally agree that if someone just doesn't like a band or a style they should just ignore it.  Example: It's your right to not like metalcore, death metal, etc. but there's no need to go on a thread and complain about it.

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD on Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:42 pm

Follower of Jesus wrote:Adam - when we are as "into" our music as we all are, we obsess over the small things. We all have opinions and we discuss them. We talk about all aspects of the music, and yes, negative opinions are expressed. We're not cutting musicians to pieces. Almost every band that gets discussed on here has fans and detractors. I've not really seen here in a long time a thread about a band that everyone really hated. When artists put their work out there, they are taking the chance that it will not be liked. Us expressing that we don't like something is not wrong. If we were tearing into the artists as people, then you'd have a point. But I think you're off base with your criticism.

I've read artists being ridiculed for their thoughts and beliefs.  The problem is nowadays the Internet  is so open to all sorts of people giving their views and opinions.  Is it no wonder not many artists are on this site much anymore as it is probably demoralising for them getting such a mixed reaction and it's the negative comments that get taken to heart.
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD on Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:44 pm

d@v!d wrote:
HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD wrote:I have noticed after reading through many posts on this site that so many people are so hyper critical of bands whether it be not liking the vocals, don't like guitar or drum sound, the production is not quite good enough or the artwork the wrong colour etc etc.  Just because we don't like a particular style should we really publicly cut to pieces musicians who have tried to produce something close to their heart. As Christians should we be scrutinising artists material all the time and clobbering them in public with destructive critisism.  Surely as Christians we should be more encouraging?  I think sometimes we just don't get it?!!!
YES! Let's bless mediocrity! Preach it brotha!


lol!
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD on Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:53 pm

G
eatbugs wrote:I try not to nitpick and when I do I try to do it constructively, remembering that a band could see the thread.  I also nitpick more when I like a band and they have set a standard.  Imagine if the next Stryper or Theocracy album is a dud.  Lots of fans on this forum would be disappointed - we're fans and like them and want good music from them that we know they can produce.  I want honest reviews of an artists work.  If it has flaws I want to know what they are so I can decide if it will bother me enough to not listen to and waste my money on.  This can be done constructively though.

Also, there's a certain practice very common among bands/labels that annoys me and I've debated starting a thread on it.  I haven't partly because of this very reason; but it's my right to and I don't think I would be wrong to do it.

I totally agree that if someone just doesn't like a band or a style they should just ignore it.  Example: It's your right to not like metalcore, death metal, etc. but there's no need to go on a thread and complain about it.
I thinks it's really great that bands like STRYPER and THEOCRACY, two of the most popular Christian Metal bands nowadays manage to produce albums with great production on a small budget.  Imagine what they could do on a bigger budget?
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Candlemass on Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:04 pm

Stryper has a small budget? Shocked
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD on Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:19 pm

Candlemass wrote:Stryper has a small budget? Shocked

Compared to bigger metal acts, definitely!
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Friday13th on Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:28 pm

HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD wrote:
Candlemass wrote:Stryper has a small budget? Shocked

Compared to bigger metal acts, definitely!

They're no Metallica...a perfect example of a large budget and large number of squandered opportunities.  face palm
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:36 pm

HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD wrote:
Candlemass wrote:Stryper has a small budget? Shocked

Compared to bigger metal acts, definitely!


Agreed.

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Blake on Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:39 pm

I wouldnt say its just this forum. I'd say its everywhere on the internet
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:26 pm

Friday13th wrote:
HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD wrote:
Candlemass wrote:Stryper has a small budget? Shocked

Compared to bigger metal acts, definitely!

They're no Metallica...a perfect example of a large budget and large number of squandered opportunities.  face palm

Many bands, when putting an album together, are racing against the clock to please their fans.

The fans start getting restless and start acting like barbarians.

I think many bands cave in to this pressure, and that's why they rush and put out stuff that is not really up to par.

I imagine all that pressure would be a "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" type situation.

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Temple of Blood on Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:44 pm

Seems the only things that ever get criticized are vocals and production.

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Machine Fish on Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:33 pm

I like extremely raw production. Take the Greetings of Death demos by Deliverance for example, I love those. I'm pretty lax on judging music I think, my policy is "If I like it, I like it" the only thing I nit-pick on is how much anti-christianity or sexual references there are in the music.
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:05 pm

Temple of Blood,


Artists have gotten criticized here for a lot more than just vocals or production ....

Just off the top of my head, Dale Thompson, Michael Sweet and Ted Kirkpatrick have been criticized here for what they say,  how they act, what they believe, what they name their project, etc etc

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Hardcore Christian on Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:19 pm

Saying I shouldnt judge a band is like saying I shouldnt be choosy about what movies i like or hate

I hate slashers and chick flicks

i love westerns and sci fi
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Temple of Blood on Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:40 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:Temple of Blood,


Artists have gotten criticized here for a lot more than just vocals or production ....

Just off the top of my head, Dale Thompson, Michael Sweet and Ted Kirkpatrick have been criticized here for what they say,  how they act, what they believe, what they name their project, etc etc

haha, right.

But never for lousy solos, off-time rhythms, boring riffs, generic drum fills, and so many other things that go into making music.

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by sentient 6 on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:16 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:Just off the top of my head, Dale Thompson, Michael Sweet and Ted Kirkpatrick have been criticized here for what they say,  how they act, what they believe, what they name their project, etc etc

So, if a person is perceived to be throwing a fan base under the bus, or is unbalanced in the theological views they expouse in their songs....thats not open for critique or discusion ?

....these people have a public forum, and are in the mix in the exchange of ideas.
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by alldatndensum on Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:05 am

I totally agree that if someone just doesn't like a band or a style they should just ignore it.  Example: It's your right to not like metalcore, death metal, etc. but there's no need to go on a thread and complain about it.

So we're only allowed to say something if we follow the status quo?  That's called "conversation".  We all are looking for new tunes and I try to check out most everything that people post in here.  Why should I not get to have a voice if I dislike something?  If I go for ice cream and all they have is rocky road and I loathed it, wouldn't I have to right to tell them why I dislike it and then leave?  Of course, I would. 

Our society has become so dang over sensitive that if we disagree with anyone that we are judging.  Whatever happened to being able to handle criticism and just shrug it off?  We've become wussified to the point that we can't handle a difference of opinion.  But, that's what happens when you baby everyone with a trophy:  they cannot handle someone else's opinion.
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:19 am

It's not conversation when someone just goes into a thread about a band and posts a comment like "I don't like them"

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:48 am

Temple of Blood wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:Temple of Blood,


Artists have gotten criticized here for a lot more than just vocals or production ....

Just off the top of my head, Dale Thompson, Michael Sweet and Ted Kirkpatrick have been criticized here for what they say,  how they act, what they believe, what they name their project, etc etc

haha, right.

But never for lousy solos, off-time rhythms, boring riffs, generic drum fills, and so many other things that go into making music.


I have seen people discuss the good and bad points of those artists' music..which I think is fine. That's what fans do. I just think getting worked up about what they say or what they believe is going overboard.

Also, especially at CMR, there are some people here who have an agenda against certain artists and they take every chance they get to take a swipe at them.


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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:06 am

sentient 6 wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:Just off the top of my head, Dale Thompson, Michael Sweet and Ted Kirkpatrick have been criticized here for what they say,  how they act, what they believe, what they name their project, etc etc

So, if a person is perceived to be throwing a fan base under the bus, or is unbalanced in the theological views they expouse in their songs....thats not open for critique or discusion ?

....these people have a public forum, and are in the mix in the exchange of ideas.



S6,

"person is perceived to be throwing a fan base under the bus" They are just bands, if you like the record, buy it. If you like the band, support them. If you stop liking the band, that's fine..don't buy their stuff.  Anyone who ever feels "thrown under the bus" by an artist has obviously put that artist up onto a pedestal. No matter what a band does, my life is the same. If I no longer agree with what a band believes or if I no longer like their music, I simply stop supporting them. 


"unbalanced in the theological views they expouse"   again, it's just music....they aren't where I get my spiritual advice from or look to for Biblical inspiration. I disagree with a lot of the views of Christians out there, artists or not, so I prefer to go to the Word directly. A lot of the same people who go on and on about how an artist expresses his faith or what he believes also listen to secular music that consistently expresses views contrary to the Gospel, but somehow that isn't an issue to them? 




Bottom line, yes, people are obviously free to discuss whatever they want, just that sometimes it gets ridiculous seeing what people complain about.
True, the personal lives of the artists are in the public spectrum, but it doesn't mean people need to be a*holes about it or be disrespectful to the artists.

Discussing the quality of the music is what we are here for, so both positive and negative feedback is expected when it comes to that. But there are people who have agendas against certain artists that constantly get into threads about that artist simply to make negative comments. That gets old.

I see that sometimes it is very unbalanced and petty, and personally I don't see why ANY popular artist would want to come in here and subject themselves to some of the attitudes here.

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:33 am

NoOneIsHere wrote:
sentient 6 wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:Just off the top of my head, Dale Thompson, Michael Sweet and Ted Kirkpatrick have been criticized here for what they say,  how they act, what they believe, what they name their project, etc etc

So, if a person is perceived to be throwing a fan base under the bus, or is unbalanced in the theological views they expouse in their songs....thats not open for critique or discusion ?

....these people have a public forum, and are in the mix in the exchange of ideas.



S6,

"person is perceived to be throwing a fan base under the bus" They are just bands, if you like the record, buy it. If you like the band, support them. If you stop liking the band, that's fine..don't buy their stuff.  Anyone who ever feels "thrown under the bus" by an artist has obviously put that artist up onto a pedestal. No matter what a band does, my life is the same. If I no longer agree with what a band believes or if I no longer like their music, I simply stop supporting them. 


"unbalanced in the theological views they expouse"   again, it's just music....they aren't where I get my spiritual advice from or look to for Biblical inspiration. I disagree with a lot of the views of Christians out there, artists or not, so I prefer to go to the Word directly. A lot of the same people who go on and on about how an artist expresses his faith or what he believes also listen to secular music that consistently expresses views contrary to the Gospel, but somehow that isn't an issue to them? 




Bottom line, yes, people are obviously free to discuss whatever they want, just that sometimes it gets ridiculous seeing what people complain about.
True, the personal lives of the artists are in the public spectrum, but it doesn't mean people need to be a*holes about it or be disrespectful to the artists.

Discussing the quality of the music is what we are here for, so both positive and negative feedback is expected when it comes to that. But there are people who have agendas against certain artists that constantly get into threads about that artist simply to make negative comments. That gets old.

I see that sometimes it is very unbalanced and petty, and personally I don't see why ANY popular artist would want to come in here and subject themselves to some of the attitudes here.

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:46 am

alldatndensum wrote:
I totally agree that if someone just doesn't like a band or a style they should just ignore it.  Example: It's your right to not like metalcore, death metal, etc. but there's no need to go on a thread and complain about it.

So we're only allowed to say something if we follow the status quo?  That's called "conversation".  We all are looking for new tunes and I try to check out most everything that people post in here.  Why should I not get to have a voice if I dislike something?  If I go for ice cream and all they have is rocky road and I loathed it, wouldn't I have to right to tell them why I dislike it and then leave?  Of course, I would. 

Our society has become so dang over sensitive that if we disagree with anyone that we are judging.  Whatever happened to being able to handle criticism and just shrug it off?  We've become wussified to the point that we can't handle a difference of opinion.  But, that's what happens when you baby everyone with a trophy:  they cannot handle someone else's opinion.

Have you ever thought that some people take critisism personally?  It's not just that, it's the malicious hatred and lies that are aimed towards musicians on a personal level.  It makes uncomfortable reading when I see posts of this nature.  S.O.S.
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by eatbugs on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:39 pm

alldatndensum wrote:
I totally agree that if someone just doesn't like a band or a style they should just ignore it.  Example: It's your right to not like metalcore, death metal, etc. but there's no need to go on a thread and complain about it.

So we're only allowed to say something if we follow the status quo?  That's called "conversation".  We all are looking for new tunes and I try to check out most everything that people post in here.  Why should I not get to have a voice if I dislike something?  If I go for ice cream and all they have is rocky road and I loathed it, wouldn't I have to right to tell them why I dislike it and then leave?  Of course, I would. 

Our society has become so dang over sensitive that if we disagree with anyone that we are judging.  Whatever happened to being able to handle criticism and just shrug it off?  We've become wussified to the point that we can't handle a difference of opinion.  But, that's what happens when you baby everyone with a trophy:  they cannot handle someone else's opinion.

I think you misunderstood me.  I agree with everything you said, but that's not what I meant.  I'm talking about the threads where we're talking about a metalcore band and someone comes in with "I don't like metalcore."  As NoOneIsHere pointed out, that's not constructive conversation.  Using the ice cream analogy, if you never tried rocky road then did and hated it, you should be able to say so.  But if you know you don't like rocky road and there's a conversation about a particular brand of rocky road that some of us like, a comment about "I don't like rocky road" is not productive.

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Staybrite on Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:41 pm

I hate rocky road! 
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by eatbugs on Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:02 pm

lol!

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:08 pm

Let Weird Al tell you what he thinks about Rocky Road, while nitpicking on Joan Jett and the Blackhearts.


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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by WildWorld on Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:30 pm

Personally, i judge artists on a song-by-song basis. Very few times do i like every song on a given album, but the songs i do like make it worth it. Considering we live in the world of the MP3 player, judging a band on the basis of an album that has 5 songs you like and 5 songs you dont like is kind of redundant nowadays.

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Fri May 01, 2015 3:10 am

I dont judge a band on anything other than do they suck or do they not suck...lyrics mean nothing to me and I listen to everything!!

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD on Fri May 01, 2015 11:28 am

savage amusement wrote:I dont judge a band on anything other than do they suck or do they not suck...lyrics mean nothing to me and I listen to everything!!


This may be true that "lyrics don't mean anything to you" but what about those words that are engraved in your brain? How can you not sing along to those lyrics and treat them just as words?  Music DOES affect you emotionally and will do spiritually. The best adverts on TV have catchy songs and tunes that are very hard to get out of your head!!!  I believe that when it comes to entertainment in whatever form, you should only fill your mind with what matches your lifestyle.  Mixing your lifestyle with entertainment enriched with sex, drugs, drink, satan, negativity, atheism etc etc WILL damage you and you won't be living life abundantly.
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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by Guest on Fri May 01, 2015 11:35 am

This may be true that "lyrics don't mean anything to you" but what about those words that are engraved in your brain? How can you not sing along to those lyrics and treat them just as words?  Music DOES affect you emotionally and will do spiritually. The best adverts on TV have catchy songs and tunes that are very hard to get out of your head!!!  I believe that when it comes to entertainment in whatever form, you should only fill your mind with what matches your lifestyle.  Mixing your lifestyle with entertainment enriched with sex, drugs, drink, satan, negativity, atheism etc etc WILL damage you and you won't be living life abundantly.
Thats your opinion and I respect that however I dont believe  like you....I would think my avatar would have told you that..and I do listen to what matches my lifestyle and beliefs and I live very abundantly... I have spent years on this board before I left for awhile and most old timers know what i believe...

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Re: NIT PICKING ARTISTS

Post by HOTDOGS AND MUSTARD on Fri May 01, 2015 12:04 pm

savage amusement wrote:
This may be true that "lyrics don't mean anything to you" but what about those words that are engraved in your brain? How can you not sing along to those lyrics and treat them just as words?  Music DOES affect you emotionally and will do spiritually. The best adverts on TV have catchy songs and tunes that are very hard to get out of your head!!!  I believe that when it comes to entertainment in whatever form, you should only fill your mind with what matches your lifestyle.  Mixing your lifestyle with entertainment enriched with sex, drugs, drink, satan, negativity, atheism etc etc WILL damage you and you won't be living life abundantly.
Thats your opinion and I respect that however I dont believe  like you....I would think my avatar would have told you that..and I do listen to what matches my lifestyle and beliefs and I live very abundantly... I have spent years on this board before I left for awhile and most old timers know what i believe...

I don't judge you, even with your avatar!!  Welcome back Savage and am glad you live life abundantly. Razz
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