Has Christian Metal Really Come To This????

I was looking at Destroy the Runner - Void [Explicit].  It's not the first time I encountered the F bomb appearing on a band who once appeared in a Christian book stores.  I've listened to many Podcasts and Found some old Christian Metal band that I loved years ago, doing the same thing.  It made me feel like writing this.  When I started writing I had no idea that I would write this much!  Sorry.

I don't look "Metal" but there must be something "Metal" in my heart because I can't seem to make myself listen to the alternative.  Which seems to be Praise and Worship music.  (I'm speaking in popularity, the mainstream Christian focus)  I like something that I can relate too and sink my teeth into.  As much as I love some soft stuff from time to time, I can't stand anything that makes God sound wimpy.

I remember getting into Christian Hard Rock as a kid.  Mylon and a Broken Heart - The Crank it Up Album was my first exposer.  At first I didn't really like it but it grew on me, and once it did, hard rock got into me and stayed.  To this day I love Hard Rock and Metal music.  I really love it when it's got spiritual themes throughout the songs.  But as Christian Metal and Hard Rock has evolved, I'm beginning to wonder if many of the new bands are loosing the understanding of what being a Believer in Jesus really means.  When I listen to the songs I get the impression that the writers are lost and confused.  In some ways this is great, because we all go through confusing times as we try to walk with the Lord.  But it's finally getting to the point to where these artists seem to think that they need to include so called swear words like the F word.  What is the purpose?  To be more honest?  To better relate to the masses?  Or to shock us more?  The Bible clearly tells us what our speech should be like, and to conform to what the Bible describes is a challenge for me. I completely understand how life can be aggravating and your tempted to drop a few bombs here and there.  But I'm like, Hey, you know your not supposed to act like that.  Maybe I need to get talk more to Jesus and say, Hey please change my heart.  But it seems like these people want use to embrace it.  I remember listening to a podcast, where the Christian Singer said "It's just words"  It got me scratching my head and thinking, when the Bible says God spoke everything into existence, were those "just words"?   Words have meaning and power!  Words can make you feel good or make you feel bad. The Gospel Message is presented through words.  If they are just words, then everything I'm writing right now means nothing.

I'm feeling low about this because when I first got into Christian Metal, I was really impressed by the message the bands were spreading.  Now days?  I just don't know.  It seems like the spiritual confused bands are the ones taking over.  I miss the bands who used to scream scripture.  I know what some people might be thinking.  This is an outreach, and screaming that stuff turns the unbeliever off.  This circles back to my first reason why I mentioned "Praise and Worship" music.  It's like saying "Once we reach them, now they got to go to Praise and Worship music to build themselves up through music, or stop listening to music and just focus on Bible reading.  That is kinda where I'm at right now.  Since I don't really care that much for the modern Praise and Worship stuff, and I'm a little put off by the direction of Christian Metal, I find myself burying myself into my Audio Bible and any Preacher/Teacher that I think is sticking to scripture.  It feels a bit out of balance because sometimes you just need some good Music to give you a kick.  So you can come back to the Scriptures again.

Most of it comes down to the bands are not entirely made up of believers anymore

I know that with Destroy The Runner I think only the guitarist was a believer, the same with bands like Norma Jean and The Devil Wears Prada. TDWP over the past few years have been way less outspoken, and it is because only the lead singer considers himself a Christian (https://www.revolvermag.com/music/devil-wears-prada-how-faith-hell-chelsea-wolfe-inspired-metalcore-acts-new-album)

Norma Jean on the other hand, is really a one man band now, with only Cory Brendan and because of that their newest album All Hail has lyrically really returned to their faith-based roots.

The other side is also for shock factor, I remember how big of a deal it was when P.O.D. dropped an f bomb a few years back too

Hardcore Christian wrote:Most of it comes down to the bands are not entirely made up of believers anymore

I know that with Destroy The Runner I think only the guitarist was a believer, the same with bands like Norma Jean and The Devil Wears Prada. TDWP over the past few years have been way less outspoken, and it is because only the lead singer considers himself a Christian (https://www.revolvermag.com/music/devil-wears-prada-how-faith-hell-chelsea-wolfe-inspired-metalcore-acts-new-album)

Norma Jean on the other hand, is really a one man band now, with only Cory Brendan and because of that their newest album All Hail has lyrically really returned to their faith-based roots.

The other side is also for shock factor, I remember how big of a deal it was when P.O.D. dropped an f bomb a few years back too

It's been like this for a long time.  I never completely understood why Christians wanted to join forces with unbelievers in a touring Band.  When your that close to people everyday I'd think you'd want to have something foundational to connect over.  It appears that to these people the foundation isn't Christ, it's the Music and art.  Tooth and Nail seems to be the label that really promoted mixed bands.  Granted I like the sounds that came out of Tooth and Nail.  But still, I wonder if this is something that should of been promoted at all.

I'm kinda sad to hear that about The Devil Wears Prada. I really enjoy their albums.

Norma Jean, I listened to a podcast with Cory Brendan.  He's one of those guys I think needs to be discipled more.  I think it's really hard to find a good Church family.  But that is what I think Cory needs.

Hardcore Christian wrote:Most of it comes down to the bands are not entirely made up of believers anymore

This is a big part of it.  

Bands need to be more clear on where they are on the "Christian band" spectrum, and stop dodging the question.  No judgment on a fan's part, but we should know.  Is it a true Christian band with Christian-centered lyrics?  Is it a band of Christians with less obvious Christian content (early MXPX, Switchfoot).  Is it a band of some Christians and some not but the Christian singer writes the lyrics so they "sound Christian"?  Some of it is on the person questioning, not making "Are you a Christian band" a black and white yes/no answer when it is really a continuum.  If a band is on a quasi-Christian label (such as Tooth & Nail) and found in the Christian market but they dodge the "Christian band" question it sets up this sort of confusion.  Not dodging the question keeps bands like Destroy the Runner from being falsely tagged.  Zao, who changed lineups and changed the makeup of Christians in the band did well to say so.  As sad as it was to me as a Christian, I appreciated the honesty of Gideon who came out about their loss of faith (although they probably should change their name, since "Gideon" is a known-Biblical name and implies they are still Christian).

I do understand how the "Christian" tag can be damaging from a marketing perspective and how an artist in general doesn't like their work pigeon-holed.

As far as swearing specifically, I'm with MetalMusicforJesus99.  I don't get it for Christians.  In my personal life sometimes I slip up and let one go, but in a written song where there are plenty of opportunities to re-write it becomes pre-meditated and no longer a "slip up."  With a few exceptions, those songs get deleted from my digital music library.

eatbugs wrote:

Hardcore Christian wrote:Most of it comes down to the bands are not entirely made up of believers anymore

This is a big part of it.  

Bands need to be more clear on where they are on the "Christian band" spectrum, and stop dodging the question.  No judgment on a fan's part, but we should know.  Is it a true Christian band with Christian-centered lyrics?  Is it a band of Christians with less obvious Christian content (early MXPX, Switchfoot).  Is it a band of some Christians and some not but the Christian singer writes the lyrics so they "sound Christian"?  Some of it is on the person questioning, not making "Are you a Christian band" a black and white yes/no answer when it is really a continuum.  If a band is on a quasi-Christian label (such as Tooth & Nail) and found in the Christian market but they dodge the "Christian band" question it sets up this sort of confusion.  Not dodging the question keeps bands like Destroy the Runner from being falsely tagged.  Zao, who changed lineups and changed the makeup of Christians in the band did well to say so.  As sad as it was to me as a Christian, I appreciated the honesty of Gideon who came out about their loss of faith (although they probably should change their name, since "Gideon" is a known-Biblical name and implies they are still Christian).

I do understand how the "Christian" tag can be damaging from a marketing perspective and how an artist in general doesn't like their work pigeon-holed.

As far as swearing specifically, I'm with MetalMusicforJesus99.  I don't get it for Christians.  In my personal life sometimes I slip up and let one go, but in a written song where there are plenty of opportunities to re-write it becomes pre-meditated and no longer a "slip up."  With a few exceptions, those songs get deleted from my digital music library.

I agree with everything you said.

I think whenever a band that gets known as a Christian Band decides they no longer wish to be labeled as a Christian band, they should not only make that clear, but they should also change their name to something else.  To me it doesn't matter what the name was...  Once it got associated with "Christianity" it will always be known as such.  The Band might not think this is fair but I think it is because without the fans support they are nothing.  It doesn't matter if your a Christian or a Secular band, without the fans your nothing.  So you got to respect your fans.

I don't know what a person should do about their own Names.  That's not something we can not just change.  But I think this just shows that Christianity is meant to be a one way street.  Once you start down that path, your not meant to turn back.  I think a person can walk away from Jesus but it's like ripping apart a marriage.  I'm not here to debate this.  But we can discuss it if any of you want...

I have a few albums that came with swear words, and I deleted those songs.  But it still bothers me to listen to those albums knowing in the back of my head, that these guys are like this, but once claimed Christianity and made clean interesting music.  The best advice anyone gave me was, every time you listen to those bands, pray for them.  It's great advice!  But I have trouble getting past myself in prayer.  Just happens to be where I'm at spiritually and emotionally.  Which is another reason why I've been asking Jesus to make my Christian heart better.

MetalMusicforJesus99 wrote:To this day I love Hard Rock and Metal music.  I really love it when it's got spiritual themes throughout the songs.  But as Christian Metal and Hard Rock has evolved, I'm beginning to wonder if many of the new bands are loosing the understanding of what being a Believer in Jesus really means.

You and me both. I've been a part of recent conversations online regarding a few different Christian metal releases that have very controversial lyrics. (and that might be putting it lightly)

Like one fairly new Christian black metal release (unfortunately, this isn't the only example) has some lyrics "Raped is how I want you to be.". For one, if a Christian artist has to explain the message, the message itself is not working. For two, their private response to someone who then relayed the explanation (since they wouldn't respond in a public setting) was that this line is from the point of view of evil, in the story.

??????

Jeff: "So there I was, tearing the hot seasoned flesh off the bone and chewing it. I was overwhelmed with the delicious flavors...."
*everyone else in the vegan chat room* -
Rose: "What in the..."
Steve: "Jeff?"
Jeff: "What!? Its still a vegan story. Its just from the point of view of a meat eater."

Hey, you know what other stories have the point of view of a meat eater? Stories about eating meat.
Likewise, you know what other lyrics have the point of view of evil? Evil lyrics.

I fear some day there will be a release with lyrics that are straight up satanic rites, hail Satan, evil evil evil, and then the last stanza of the last track saying something along the lines of
"then that's when I turned to Christ and my life has changed ever since. To God be the glory! Amen"
....and THEN, this is "marketed" as "Christian".

MetalMusicforJesus99 wrote:I miss the bands who used to scream scripture.

Me too... and I'm not saying this to plug my new album coming out this month that has lyrics verbatim Psalm 119, but I'm saying this to let you know I share your sentiment. (no its not the whole chapter, that's a long chapter LOL)

I understand the value of shock/controversy though....
...but I don't understand why Christian metal artists feel the need to shock anyone with LYRICS.
My experience, for what its worth, its more rewarding to shock them with the MUSIC.

Besides, music like a black metal haunted house with a very bold Christian message is also a bit shocking and controversial to some people.

ThomasEversole wrote:You and me both.  I've been a part of recent conversations online regarding a few different Christian metal releases that have very controversial lyrics.  (and that might be putting it lightly)

Like one fairly new Christian black metal release (unfortunately, this isn't the only example) has some lyrics "Raped is how I want you to be.".  For one, if a Christian artist has to explain the message, the message itself is not working.  For two, their private response to someone who then relayed the explanation (since they wouldn't respond in a public setting) was that this line is from the point of view of evil, in the story.  

??????

Jeff: "So there I was, tearing the hot seasoned flesh off the bone and chewing it. I was overwhelmed with the delicious flavors...."
*everyone else in the vegan chat room* -        
Rose: "What in the..."
Steve: "Jeff?"
Jeff: "What!? Its still a vegan story. Its just from the point of view of a meat eater."

Hey, you know what other stories have the point of view of a meat eater?  Stories about eating meat.
Likewise, you know what other lyrics have the point of view of evil?  Evil lyrics.

I fear some day there will be a release with lyrics that are straight up satanic rites, hail Satan, evil evil evil, and then the last stanza of the last track saying something along the lines of
"then that's when I turned to Christ and my life has changed ever since. To God be the glory! Amen"
....and THEN, this is "marketed" as "Christian".

This idea for writing lyrics reminds of The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis.  Except CS Lewis did it right.

I used to be proud of Christian Rock for being provocative at times without stooping to foul language.  But what your describing to me sounds like some bands are going too far.  I have no idea if MyChildrenMyBride still claims Christian or not.  But I was really put off once I found out that the first song from the latest album is about vampirism, and it doesn't appear that they are singing against it.  I don't get it.  How does that song help anyone?    It made me feel sick to watch the youtube video.  I haven't listened to the album since.

ThomasEversole wrote:Me too...  and I'm not saying this to plug my new album coming out this month that has lyrics verbatim Psalm 119, but I'm saying this to let you know I share your sentiment. (no its not the whole chapter, that's a long chapter LOL)

I'm sad about this but I feel that I need to find replacements for some of my bands.  I found Death Breaker, which for now, seems to be a good replacement for Norma Jean.  I need to look into your Band!  Thank you for letting me know about what your doing.

ThomasEversole wrote:I understand the value of shock/controversy though....
...but I don't understand why Christian metal artists feel the need to shock anyone with LYRICS.
My experience, for what its worth, its more rewarding to shock them with the MUSIC.

Besides, music like a black metal haunted house with a very bold Christian message is also a bit shocking and controversial to some people.

Many people don't read the Bible enough.  There is lots of controversial things in the Bible.  Just cause something is "controversial" doesn't make it wrong.  I think it's wrong to be controversial for mere sake of controversy without a purpose.

If you're a Christian band, you should be very clear about where do you stand. There are many great examples of that. Unfortunately, some of the bands have lost their direction.

I'm ok with Christians doing mainstream-stuff lyrically as long as it's not marketed as "Christian". Without clear message it's only "Christians-in-a-band"-type of thing.

It isn't just the Christian metal/hard rock community.


This is evidenced in the church as a whole.  We see churches in decline because we've become so secularized.  We've all claimed we can use our freedom in Christ to do this or that, but we've sent out this message by doing so that we are no different than the world at all.  We don't share the gospel with people anymore.  Our relationships have faltered as we have embraced social media.  Our conversations are more about what Team A did last night, who's coming in concert or who we saw last night, or what's new on Netflix.  Our lifestyles too many times are no different than the world's, either.

It is hard to tell anymore if someone is a Christian by their walk OR their talk.  We don't have people truly dedicated to the church anymore or to building a kingdom for Christ.  While some churches may be healthy, for the most part we are in crisis in the USA as many smaller churches are drying up and we will see an increase in closures and decreases in new believers.  We are seeing a falling away in the USA.

It isn't just in metal, folks.  It is a symptom of a larger problem--lukewarm Christianity.

@ThomasEversole Just wanted to let you know that I bought two of your albums:  Orationem - True Holy Black Metal.zip, Orationem - When We Are Wounded.zip

alldatndensum wrote:It isn't just the Christian metal/hard rock community.


This is evidenced in the church as a whole.  We see churches in decline because we've become so secularized.  We've all claimed we can use our freedom in Christ to do this or that, but we've sent out this message by doing so that we are no different than the world at all.  We don't share the gospel with people anymore.  Our relationships have faltered as we have embraced social media.  Our conversations are more about what Team A did last night, who's coming in concert or who we saw last night, or what's new on Netflix.  Our lifestyles too many times are no different than the world's, either.

It is hard to tell anymore if someone is a Christian by their walk OR their talk.  We don't have people truly dedicated to the church anymore or to building a kingdom for Christ.  While some churches may be healthy, for the most part we are in crisis in the USA as many smaller churches are drying up and we will see an increase in closures and decreases in new believers.  We are seeing a falling away in the USA.

It isn't just in metal, folks.  It is a symptom of a larger problem--lukewarm Christianity.

I agree with your statements about the Church.  The Church I'm currently going too does preach the truth from God's word.  However, I'm a little "different" in my personality.  I'm one of those that finds himself sitting alone, and nobody trying to engage in conversation with me.  It's been this way every Church I've been too.  Some of them talk about outreach to the community and yet a hurting person can be sitting right there in the pew Sunday after Sunday for years and nobody finds out anything.  That's not Church in my opinion.  It's a spectator sport.  The Pastor said, I want to connect with you.  It's been weeks and it's never happened.  LOL  They want the person who comes in to do all the work connecting.  Believe me I've tried that before and if the people aren't your "type" your "out" even if your in the building paying tithe.

MetalMusicforJesus99 wrote:@ThomasEversoleJust wanted to let you know that I bought two of your albums:  Orationem - True Holy Black Metal.zip, Orationem - When We Are Wounded.zip

Thanks man! If you like your metal harsh and relentless, you should like them. LOL
The new album coming out later is called "Your Word Is A Lamp To My Feet". (Psalm 119:105)

Markus1987 wrote:If you're a Christian band, you should be very clear about where do you stand. There are many great examples of that. Unfortunately, some of the bands have lost their direction.

I'm ok with Christians doing mainstream-stuff lyrically as long as it's not marketed as "Christian". Without clear message it's only "Christians-in-a-band"-type of thing.

I'm very much the same way. If the music is Christian, there shouldn't be an doubt or confusion if it is or isn't.

A few years back, I did some secular metal based on welsh mythology. It clearly wasn't "Christian" themed, but since I'm a Christian, nothing obscene or controversial was still in the lyrics. It was under its own name, and it was its own thing. Christians can enjoy fiction stories, so I see nothing wrong with Christians listening to music that isn't gospel truth.

MetalMusicforJesus99 wrote:
I think whenever a band that gets known as a Christian Band decides they no longer wish to be labeled as a Christian band, they should not only make that clear, but they should also change their name to something else.

EXACTLY. I agree with this big time.

If I did another album of this welsh Mythology themed music, under its own name, no one would think much of anything about it.
If I did another album of Welsh Mythology themed music, under the Orationem name, some people (and Vision of God records) would think something went very wrong with me to do multiple Christian albums, to all of a sudden switch gears to something definitely not Christian, but I kept the music/name the same.

ThomasEversole wrote:

MetalMusicforJesus99 wrote:@ThomasEversoleJust wanted to let you know that I bought two of your albums:  Orationem - True Holy Black Metal.zip, Orationem - When We Are Wounded.zip

Thanks man!  If you like your metal harsh and relentless, you should like them.  LOL
The new album coming out later is called "Your Word Is A Lamp To My Feet".  (Psalm 119:105)

Markus1987 wrote:If you're a Christian band, you should be very clear about where do you stand. There are many great examples of that. Unfortunately, some of the bands have lost their direction.

I'm ok with Christians doing mainstream-stuff lyrically as long as it's not marketed as "Christian". Without clear message it's only "Christians-in-a-band"-type of thing.

I'm very much the same way.  If the music is Christian, there shouldn't be an doubt or confusion if it is or isn't.

A few years back, I did some secular metal based on welsh mythology.  It clearly wasn't "Christian" themed, but since I'm a Christian, nothing obscene or controversial was still in the lyrics.  It was under its own name, and it was its own thing.  Christians can enjoy fiction stories, so I see nothing wrong with Christians listening to music that isn't gospel truth.

MetalMusicforJesus99 wrote:
I think whenever a band that gets known as a Christian Band decides they no longer wish to be labeled as a Christian band, they should not only make that clear, but they should also change their name to something else.

EXACTLY.  I agree with this big time.  

If I did another album of this welsh Mythology themed music, under its own name, no one would think much of anything about it.
If I did another album of Welsh Mythology themed music, under the Orationem name, some people (and Vision of God records) would think something went very wrong with me to do multiple Christian albums, to all of a sudden switch gears to something definitely not Christian, but I kept the music/name the same.

I like all kinds of Metal, and even Celtic Music.  I have some really harsh and relentless stuff in my collection of 274 Artists, 731 Albums, 8,621 Songs, Total Run Time 24 Days, 16 hours, and 58 Minutes.  According to the music program Rhythmbox.  LOL  It shocked me too when I saw those numbers.

My view is a Christian can do almost anything artistic.  But before you do it you got make sure that it doesn't cause a conflict with your relationship with Christ and that it isn't something that will cause a Brother to stumble.  I grew up on CS Lewis books, and I don't mean just the ones everyone has heard of like Chronicles of Narnia.  I love fantasy and mythology.  It really does make for some great art.

I think a Christian Band starts with with members who try to walk the talk.  I use the word 'try' because nobody is perfect in every way, but they don't make up excuses for falling and then just go on like nothing ever happened.  You got to get back up and try try try again.   Because it will be that way until Jesus finally takes you home.  What I get tired of seeing is Bands who 'stumble' and then try to act like it shouldn't effect the fans.  I'm sorry but it does effect us.  The more public you are the more people you effect.  It's just the way it is.  I'm sorry if that feels like a heavy weight, I don't make the rules of life.  I think what the weight should do is cause you to run to Jesus in prayer more often.

When it comes to lyrics, it depends.  I just want to throw this out there, but Jesus spoke in Parables so that people wouldn't understand.  But he never tried to fool anyone into thinking He's something that He's not.  Like some of these bands who write like they are almost being Satanic.  All I'm saying is, I think there is some room for creativity in Lyrics.  I used to really like albums that had a balance of lyrics.  Some songs that were really in my face, and others that made me dig a little to figure them out.  It's called artistic poetry for a reason.

There might be some slight differences in how we see lyrics.  But it isn't that much.

MetalMusicforJesus99 wrote:
I like all kinds of Metal, and even Celtic Music.  I have some really harsh and relentless stuff in my collection of 274 Artists, 731 Albums, 8,621 Songs, Total Run Time 24 Days, 16 hours, and 58 Minutes.  According to the music program Rhythmbox.  LOL  It shocked me too when I saw those numbers.

Wow, that's quite the collection, and sounds like variety. Unfortunately, (and I really don't like this, but its just how it is) I feel like I'm stuck in a rut with music. What I actually like can fit in a smaller and smaller box every year.

Also unfortunately, a part of why I've released as much music as I have, is so I'll have something to listen to that I like. I can't convey how sorry I am that this is the truth.
I remember an older interview with the band Mayhem (2014 or around there somewhere) where they asked the band what other music they like/listen to.

Nothing. No other music. The music they like is what they do.
I'd just chalk that up to an answer a black metal persona would give, if it weren't for me relating to it myself a little too much.


I really do wish there was a way I could broaden my musical pallet, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet.

MetalMusicforJesus99 wrote:My view is a Christian can do almost anything artistic.  But before you do it you got make sure that it doesn't cause a conflict with your relationship with Christ and that it isn't something that will cause a Brother to stumble.

Agreed. I think if Christian music stirs confusion or controversy with other Christians, something is "off".
If Christian music stirs confusion or controversy with non-Christians (those who are lost), it very well could mean its spot on.

MetalMusicforJesus99 wrote:I think a Christian Band starts with with members who try to walk the talk.  I use the word 'try' because nobody is perfect in every way, but they don't make up excuses for falling and then just go on like nothing ever happened.

I agree, but I think bias will still exist. Not saying that's wrong, it just is what it is.

As much as I don't want to admit, I think SOME Christians about perfected "the cancel-culture" before extreme-left-liberals made it a thing. I've had some people completely dismiss what I do because of something I said or typed, in-person or online, 5-10 years ago, that wasn't related to my project/lyrics at all.

Like those remarks then (where I now see how wrong I was) still completely nullifies my published music now and published music to come.

I guess some burnt bridges just stay burnt.

Sometimes Christians should stir the pot a little.  It's ok to create controversy AS LONG AS THERE IS A POINT TO IT.  Controversy for the sake of controversy is unbiblical and there is stirring controversy even with a point that crosses the line of sin.  Sometimes some things need to be said and sometimes music (especially metal or punk) is the best way to say it.  Metal by nature isn't a "nice" genre.

Lyrically and spiritually, as I tried to say in my first post, there is a continuum of "Christian-ness."  It's a little confusing even to me but it's also completely clear in my spiritual life where I have to draw the line on what I listen to.  It's kind of a bad example because I don't have it (yet) but I could listen to Ankou Awaits just fine, but a non-Christian who makes the exact same album would be off-limits for me.  I used to say I only listen to Christian music, but that's not completely true.  More accurately, I can only listen to "Christian-friendly" music.  Thomas, you has been very clear (including in this thread) where that album stands on the continuum and it's for the best that it's not called "Christian" for the reasons cited above, but I'm also glad you're not dodging the question.

eatbugs wrote:Thomas, you has been very clear (including in this thread) where that album stands on the continuum and it's for the best that it's not called "Christian" for the reasons cited above, but I'm also glad you're not dodging the question.

I've tried to be.  

...but even then, I sometimes wonder if its still not enough.  I've seen a few different Christian metal groups on Facebook that have Ankou Awaits in their list of Christian bands.  

Not to derail the thread, but "what is Christian music?" is actually a layered and complicated "recipe".
I'd say the primary ingredients are artist intent, "Christians in a band" and "the lyrics are Christian to me".
...but each one of those have examples to contradict other examples, and its really a case by case basis.
("case" could be artist/project, album, song or stanza)

I've seen my fair share of debate online of what's Christian, what's not, should Christians listen to secular music, should we not.  There are some verses in Romans that answer this for me personally.  While the example used is for diet, I believe it does apply to other gray areas, where personal conviction is the variable.  (like what music a Christian feels comfortable listening to)

(NLT) Romans 14:1 Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. 2 For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. 3 Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord’s help, they will stand and receive His approval.

ThomasEversole wrote:Wow, that's quite the collection, and sounds like variety.  Unfortunately, (and I really don't like this, but its just how it is) I feel like I'm stuck in a rut with music.  What I actually like can fit in a smaller and smaller box every year.

Also unfortunately, a part of why I've released as much music as I have, is so I'll have something to listen to that I like.  I can't convey how sorry I am that this is the truth.
I remember an older interview with the band Mayhem (2014 or around there somewhere) where they asked the band what other music they like/listen to.  

Nothing.  No other music.  The music they like is what they do.
I'd just chalk that up to an answer a black metal persona would give, if it weren't for me relating to it myself a little too much.


I really do wish there was a way I could broaden my musical pallet, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet.

My taste in Music changes with way I feel and the seasons of life.  My guess is, this is just the season of life your in, and that's ok because it is where God wants you right now.  It's no big deal, embrace what you like right now, and if for some reason you get tired of it, you might fall in love with something else. 

ThomasEversole wrote:I agree, but I think bias will still exist.  Not saying that's wrong, it just is what it is.

As much as I don't want to admit, I think SOME Christians about perfected "the cancel-culture" before extreme-left-liberals made it a thing.  I've had some people completely dismiss what I do because of something I said or typed, in-person or online, 5-10 years ago, that wasn't related to my project/lyrics at all.

Like those remarks then (where I now see how wrong I was) still completely nullifies my published music now and published music to come.

I guess some burnt bridges just stay burnt.

I'm not saying anything you don't already know.  But I'm going to say it because, maybe you need to hear it.  You can't change people's hearts and minds.  Only God can do that.  What you got to do is talk to Jesus about it.  Ask Him to heal those burnt bridges.  Help you to emotionally make peace with some of those past things.  Remember Jesus forgives us.  We need that forgiveness and grace to keep moving forward.

BTW I've been listening to those two Albums I bought from you.  I'm enjoying them.  Take Care. 

..but I don't understand why Christian metal artists feel the need to shock anyone with LYRICS.

For some reason Stryper came to mind when i read this , anyways....

I think you are going to find the quality bands now a days in the Indie scene or through small labels, to me a Christian band dropping the F-Bomb on an album is not a Christian band or artist at all, Not saying they are not a Christian because that would be ridiculous since we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. I know i wouldnt feel refreshed spiritually if i was listening to a Christian band and  they started dropping Profanity into their lyrics. Regardless if the band's purpose is ministry or entertainment there's no place for it.

Music in general is changing, good or bad as well as "American Christianity"

I apologize if this makes no sense, just a thought I had and wanted to share

Warzawa wrote:

..but I don't understand why Christian metal artists feel the need to shock anyone with LYRICS.

For some reason Stryper came to mind when i read this , anyways....

I think you are going to find the quality bands now a days in the Indie scene or through small labels, to me a Christian band dropping the F-Bomb on an album is not a Christian band or artist at all, Not saying they are not a Christian because that would be ridiculous since we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. I know i wouldnt feel refreshed spiritually if i was listening to a Christian band and  they started dropping Profanity into their lyrics. Regardless if the band's purpose is ministry or entertainment there's no place for it.

Music in general is changing, good or bad as well as "American Christianity"

I apologize if this makes no sense, just a thought I had and wanted to share

Congrats! Everything you said makes sense to me!

I think Stryper has been targeted by many because they've been involved in controversy more then once.  I think it just shows me that they are either a little immature, or they don't examine the ramifications good enough before trying something new.  But that is all I got to say about Stryper.  My only concern for Stryper is that they stick with Jesus for salvation and don't become too side tracked.  Other then that, I don't usually listen to them.

Every now and then I come across a Band from another Country I like, and once I hear the lyrics, I'm reminded of how things used to be here in America!

The thing that bugs me the most, and I think it bugs all of you too, is how so many Bands think it's ok to start out as "Christian" and then all of a sudden just stop being that.  It seems really weird too me.  Indie bands have the same problem, because they actually have the total freedom to be as wishy-washy as they want.  It's good to have that freedom if your a responsible person.

I find few hard rock or metal bands that I think have had really heartfelt, faith-based lyrics that aren't all cliché  "Turn or Burn!" type stuff.   It's tough to really discern where a band is spiritually, but I appreciate the bands where it's easier to tell, even if their lyrics can be cheesy at times (Hello, Mortification....).

What I don't like is when a band is touted as a "Christian band" when I see no evidence of that.  I feel like that misleads people who are looking for a certain lyrical approach and/or band mission.   So when melodic metal bands like Impellitteri, Revolution Saints, Sunroad, Shining Star, Lance King, etc. are called "Christian" just because one or more members might be Christian - but the lyrics might even reflect the opposite, that annoys me.   

Likewise, most of the modern metal / hardcore / nu-metal bands I check out that are marketed or touted as "Christian " leave me wondering why.  Much of the lyrics are dark, depressing, and/or violent.  I have lived plenty of my own life in the pages of Psalm 88 so I get the negativity.  But a whole album?   Give me at least a little light in the midst of the darkness.  Otherwise, what is your purpose in writing this stuff, I wonder?

I'd rather these bands have the "Christian" tag removed so that we can all make decisions based on knowledge instead of wishful thinking.  Like with Teramaze - Dean Wells might be a Christian (I don't know for sure) but he and the band clearly no longer want the Christian label.  I can at least respect that because it's being honest about the direction of the band.   Or Deliverance and Believer, who have clearly moved away from a Bible-based lyrical approach and make no bones about that.  Or - probably the best examples - the band As I Lay Dying and their short-lived off-shoot, Wovenwar.

I listen to music by non-believers so I don't need to have all the i's dotted and the T's crossed based on some kind of checklist.  That's not my point.   I would just rather be able to get a clearer and more honest picture - from the bands as well as the fans - of what a band is about so that I can make listening decisions based on what i want at that particular time.

Constantine wrote:
Likewise, most of the modern metal / hardcore / nu-metal bands I check out that are marketed or touted as "Christian " leave me wondering why.  Much of the lyrics are dark, depressing, and/or violent.  I have lived plenty of my own life in the pages of Psalm 88 so I get the negativity.  But a whole album?   Give me at least a little light in the midst of the darkness.  Otherwise, what is your purpose in writing this stuff, I wonder?

I think many bands who do this kind of music also suffer from depression.  I don't think many of them get to play in "nice" places.  Mostly they end up in dark bars and places like that.  I heard that Underoath said that Christians didn't support them.  I heard another guy reply, "We bought their albums"  I don't think that is what Underoath means by "didn't support".  I think He's referring to moral and spiritual support.  I heard a podcast with the drummer from the band Embodyment, and The Famine.  He said not one time did anyone from the record label "Tooth and Nail" call them up and offer to pray for them.  Granted, I don't think Tooth and Nail is good model for "Christian Label" but the owner does claim to be a Christian.  What is the point to being signed to a Christian label, if that label doesn't do anything different then the secular labels?  In my opinion it wouldn't hurt a Christian label to at least have a pastor on staff who is willing to call up the bands and check on them.  We Christians are not meant to go at it alone.  We need support from each other, because this world is a dark place.

MetalMusicforJesus99 wrote: In my opinion it wouldn't hurt a Christian label to at least have a pastor on staff who is willing to call up the bands and check on them.  We Christians are not meant to go at it alone.  We need support from each other, because this world is a dark place.

That to me is the biggest difference between classic bands and modern bands

Sanctuary was the biggest support group that bands had for decades

In the modern scene most bands go out alone, the only bands that come to mind that were actively involved and connected to a ministry in today's scene were For Today and Sleeping Giant
(and they are gone now too)

Most Facedown Records bands seem to have closer ties to being much more gospel oriented generally than Solid State and Tooth and Nail, and that's probably because of the above reasons

I did not realize any of that about Facedown Records VS. Tooth & Nail or Solid State.  I have wondered about the Christianity of bands on T&N or Solid State, but didn't pay enough attention.   Now my wondering makes more sense.  

Bob Beeman (Sanctuary lead pastor) still supports faith-based metal bands and hosts Christian metal festivals, albiet smaller ones in his new home of Nashville.  I saw some recent You Tube videos of him introducing Oblivion Myth and a few other bands.   I met him once in 1991 when I was visiting Sanctuary Church in the Redondo Beach area.  He's a real genuine guy and really cares about people.

I don't officially know any reason for Facedown dropping any band but looking at bands like Gideon, when a band walks away from their faith they are no longer on the label.

P.S. I'm not picking on Gideon in particular, they are just the most recent example that comes to mind.

Every individual, band, and story is unique.  That said, I think here's a common pattern:

Young, energetic, enthusiastic, faith-filled, and possibly naive or spiritually immature people start a band because they love Jesus and music.  The whole thing is super romantic and inspiring -- God will use us and our talent/love for music to do amazing things and change lives, we'll have a blast and God will be glorified, this will be awesome!  They work hard, hone their craft, all their friends and the local scene tell them they're awesome, and eventually they manage to get noticed enough to have a Facedown/SS/whatever label put out a record.  Wow, God's really in this, look at the platform that he's granting us!  We'll shout proudly of our Lord, not be ashamed, and just watch God work!  Their lyrics and interviews are clear, and they get on a couple tours with mainstream bands and they're off on their first real missions trip.  They speak boldly but kindly, making to always be clear they're "not trying to cram anything down anybody's throat."  Night after night they pour our their hearts, but somehow it doesn't go like they thought.  Basically, nobody cares.  Some applaud, some heckle or walk out, but it just never quite turns out like they thought.  Along with this, they find themselves, often for the first time, in a world where almost nobody else shares their beliefs and many think it's outright stupid.  The power of environment can really be overpowering -- and they start to find questions that they can't quite answer, both direct challenges to their faith and things they see in the world (and in their attempted ministry!) that are really difficult.  So many people say their beliefs are really hateful or intolerant, and as much as they try to explain how that's not right, eventually it all gets very, very wearing.  Really, the [drummer/bass player/lead guitar/whatever] wasn't that serious about Jesus in the first place, he just wanted to play in a band and went along with it, but now he's really been pulled away by the anti-Christian environment.  And why didn't God use us to do great things, like it seemed so obvious was the greater plan?  And the world just looks a lot different when you're 27 than when you're 22.  Maybe we were wrong about the whole thing. . . .  So by the third record, it's "You know, some of us are Christians and some aren't, and we're just people in a band and our songs are about things in our lives and the world and we really wish we'd never taken that 'Christian band' label, now Christians hate us because they don't think we're Christians and everybody else hates us because they think we're trying to be better than them, and we just want to make music."

None of this is justification or condemnation, but just explanation, and I think is a generally common pattern, at least some of the elements present in innumerable stories.  It's hard to do ministry, particularly outside of Christian circles, even more if you're young, and again even more if you tend toward being emotionally driven, which is common for musicians.

Just my thoughts!