Tourniquet Ark

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Tourniquet Ark

Post by johnnycanuck on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:21 pm

I have been following Ted's Kirkpatrick's Facebook page, Tourniquet Ark, and it appears that it is nothing more than a militant anti-meat page. It has a smattering of God in it (mostly Ted decrying how God would be against the raising and eating of animals for meat). I too frown upon some off the abuses of the Meat industry, but instead of balance, Ted seems to be trying to argue that God is Vegan. It is obvious from Redemption History that God commanded that animals be used in sacrifice and atonement for the sins of the people of God. It is also obvious that meat was to be eaten, and was eaten. Even Jesus performed miracles using fish (feeding the masses, Peter and the nets full of fish, Jesus cooking fish for the disciples after the resurrection). I suppose one could argue that Jesus never actually ate meat from a mammal, but sadly for Tourniquet Ark I see all meat;poultry, mammals, and fish eating appears to be condemned. I am worried that Ted will become another Roger Martinez, or like ex-band member, Gary Lenaire.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by New Creation on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:44 pm

Ted's a brother in Christ and though I disagree with him strongly on this issue, I do not see it as a reason for division.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by Black Rider on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:51 pm

It is a concern, his focus hardly seems to be on proclaiming the Gospel but is focused on animal rights. Interestingly, he is flying in the face of Scripture where we are told it's ok to eat animals.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by Tobi Elektrik on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:45 pm

johnnycanuck wrote:I have been following Ted's Kirkpatrick's Facebook page, Tourniquet Ark, and it appears that it is nothing more than a militant anti-meat page. It has a smattering of God in it (mostly Ted decrying how God would be against the raising and eating of animals for meat). I too frown upon some off the abuses of the Meat industry, but instead of balance, Ted seems to be trying to argue that God is Vegan. It is obvious from Redemption History that God commanded that animals be used in sacrifice and atonement for the sins of the people of God. It is also obvious that meat was to be eaten, and was eaten. Even Jesus performed miracles using fish (feeding the masses, Peter and the nets full of fish, Jesus cooking fish for the disciples after the resurrection). I suppose one could argue that Jesus never actually ate meat from a mammal, but sadly for Tourniquet Ark I see all meat;poultry, mammals, and fish eating appears to be condemned. I am worried that Ted will become another Roger Martinez, or like ex-band member, Gary Lenaire.

So, how do YOU achieve the right "balance" regarding this topic in your life?
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by Tobi Elektrik on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:49 pm

Black Rider wrote:It is a concern, his focus hardly seems to be on proclaiming the Gospel but is focused on animal rights. Interestingly, he is flying in the face of Scripture where we are told it's ok to eat animals.

Ted wrote A LOT of faith based songs. What's wrong about switching the topic? Maybe he said everything he wanted to say about Christian / biblical topics and is more inspired to write about other issues now. What's the big problem a lot of people seem to have with it?
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:53 pm

This is who Ted is. It's no secret at this point. You're either with it or not. It's certainly a divisive topic the way it is presented.

Personally, it's hard for me reconcile with as my youngest brother raises chickens for eggs and meat in very traditional conditions. They're outside, free, eat healthy non GMO feed and he takes great care of them. I can't really identify with Ted's views in that light.

Like I said, that's Ted though and I don't have to agree. It's certainly no hidden agenda so everyone is informed and able to make their own free choice about agreeing/disagreeing, supporting or not supporting. In that way it's nice that he's forward about it.

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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by hellig on Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:23 pm

Animals are delicious
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by Hardcore Christian on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:36 pm

New Creation wrote:Ted's a brother in Christ and though I disagree with him strongly on this issue, I do not see it as a reason for division.
Yea I respect his stance, I wish he was focused on other topics as well, not just the animal one
Black Rider wrote:It is a concern, his focus hardly seems to be on proclaiming the Gospel but is focused on animal rights. Interestingly, he is flying in the face of Scripture where we are told it's ok to eat animals.
Same here I understand his stance but he rarely talks about anything else, that I why I havent really enjoyed a "Tourniquet" album since Where Moth And Rust Destroy
hellig wrote:Animals are delicious
I agree



I cant believe it! A Ted topic that hasnt been locked yet! A rare specimen in its natural habitat (mind the pun) Razz
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by bodachi on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:34 pm

If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?

I had to slaughter our roosters the other day.  I wore my Tourniquet hat and hummed "If I Had To Do the Killing" while I did it..
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by crucifyd on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:25 am

Tobi Elektrik wrote:
Black Rider wrote:It is a concern, his focus hardly seems to be on proclaiming the Gospel but is focused on animal rights. Interestingly, he is flying in the face of Scripture where we are told it's ok to eat animals.

Ted wrote A LOT of faith based songs. What's wrong about switching the topic? Maybe he said everything he wanted to say about Christian / biblical topics and is more inspired to write about other issues now. What's the big problem a lot of people seem to have with it?

Discussing / writing about the issue isn't the problem. The problem is it seems to be to an extra-biblical extreme with ted. As stated above God has given us the go ahead to take dominion over animals up to and including eating them...

I've always opined that ted is over the top on this issue even back in the day.


bodachi wrote:If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?

I had to slaughter our roosters the other day.  I wore my Tourniquet hat and hummed "If I Had To Do the Killing" while I did it..

THAT. IS. HILARIOUS.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by sentient 6 on Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:54 am

It appears to me that over the years, Ted has been greatly influenced by a theologian and pastor named Gregory Boyd. I just don't know the extent of just how much his theology has influenced Ted though.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by Black Rider on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:17 am

And Greg Boyd is an Open Theist, but that's a different topic.  Cool
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by New Creation on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:28 am

sentient 6 wrote:It appears to me that over the years, Ted has been greatly influenced by a theologian and pastor named Gregory Boyd. I just don't know the extent of just how much his theology has influenced Ted though.

Black Rider wrote:And Greg Boyd is an Open Theist, but that's a different topic.  Cool

I'm an Open Theist. Tread lightly.  Cool
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by Black Rider on Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:31 pm

Well, it's not Biblical so any treading isn't really coming from me.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by Kerrick on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:08 pm

I see a storm coming...  Everyone, please remain respectful here...

On Ted and animals: do we really need yet another thread of this?  It's been discussed here so many times and rarely - if ever - to positive results.  I think New Creation's first response of disagreeing with Ted strongly but leaving it at that may be the best route here...  I'm not closing/locking the thread but will if things get unnecessarily heated in here.

On open theism: Black Rider is right, it's a separate topic for a separate thread.  If you want to discuss it, start a new thread.  Just remember the "don't be a jerk" rule and keep it respectful.  Personally, I'd be pretty interested in learning more about open theism.  From a quick glance at Wikipedia, I'd probably disagree with it pretty universally as well, though this could be a great opportunity to learn.

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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by New Creation on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:11 pm

Black Rider wrote:Well, it's not Biblical so any treading isn't really coming from me.

You mentioned it first, would you like to start the thread that Kerrick mentioned? If not, I just might.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by Black Rider on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:17 pm

Either way. Not sure where to start it.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by My Awesome Timothy on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:17 pm

bodachi wrote:If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?

I had to slaughter our roosters the other day.  I wore my Tourniquet hat and hummed "If I Had To Do the Killing" while I did it..
Murderer!!!  Crying or Very sad  That's what my kids tell me, they are veggies!!! Only kidding...... I personally don't know how anyone can kill an animal..... I could not do it apart from fishing that's it. So the majority of the time I am vegetarian to.  Haven't touched red meat for years. Is disgraceful the way some animals are killed, IMO if you do eat meat research should be done to make sure the animals are humanely killed.  Some videos I've seen on the web are completely heartbreaking.   Sad
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by My Awesome Timothy on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:19 pm

johnnycanuck wrote:I have been following Ted's Kirkpatrick's Facebook page, Tourniquet Ark, and it appears that it is nothing more than a militant anti-meat page. It has a smattering of God in it (mostly Ted decrying how God would be against the raising and eating of animals for meat). I too frown upon some off the abuses of the Meat industry, but instead of balance, Ted seems to be trying to argue that God is Vegan. It is obvious from Redemption History that God commanded that animals be used in sacrifice and atonement for the sins of the people of God. It is also obvious that meat was to be eaten, and was eaten. Even Jesus performed miracles using fish (feeding the masses, Peter and the nets full of fish, Jesus cooking fish for the disciples after the resurrection). I suppose one could argue that Jesus never actually ate meat from a mammal, but sadly for Tourniquet Ark I see all meat;poultry, mammals, and fish eating appears to be condemned. I am worried that Ted will become another Roger Martinez, or like ex-band member, Gary Lenaire.


Bit harsh mentioning Ted in the same bracket as Roger!!!
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by deathisgain on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:00 pm

I heard that Ted eats human babies. Lock the thread now!
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by lhversaw on Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:05 pm

johnnycanuck wrote:I have been following Ted's Kirkpatrick's Facebook page, Tourniquet Ark, and it appears that it is nothing more than a militant anti-meat page. It has a smattering of God in it (mostly Ted decrying how God would be against the raising and eating of animals for meat). I too frown upon some off the abuses of the Meat industry, but instead of balance, Ted seems to be trying to argue that God is Vegan. It is obvious from Redemption History that God commanded that animals be used in sacrifice and atonement for the sins of the people of God. It is also obvious that meat was to be eaten, and was eaten. Even Jesus performed miracles using fish (feeding the masses, Peter and the nets full of fish, Jesus cooking fish for the disciples after the resurrection). I suppose one could argue that Jesus never actually ate meat from a mammal, but sadly for Tourniquet Ark I see all meat;poultry, mammals, and fish eating appears to be condemned. I am worried that Ted will become another Roger Martinez, or like ex-band member, Gary Lenaire.
Tourniquet Ark is nothing more than a PRO - PETA, Animals have more rights than humans page for his animal rights focus.  If it were up to Peta and Ted we would all eat grass at least until lawn companies start protesting and making anti veggies/greens/plants rights pages.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by Hardcore Christian on Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:06 pm

Kerrick wrote:I see a storm coming...  Everyone, please remain respectful here...


On open theism: Black Rider is right, it's a separate topic for a separate thread.  If you want to discuss it, start a new thread.  Just remember the "don't be a jerk" rule and keep it respectful.  Personally, I'd be pretty interested in learning more about open theism.  From a quick glance at Wikipedia, I'd probably disagree with it pretty universally as well, though this could be a great opportunity to learn.
Or you could say its "The Storm Before The Calm" Razz

Anyway I see where we started

lhversaw wrote:Tourniquet Ark is nothing more than a PRO - PETA, Animals have more rights than humans page for his animal rights focus.  If it were up to Peta and Ted we would all eat grass at least until lawn companies start protesting and making anti veggies/greens/plants rights pages.
Yep Thumbs up
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by bodachi on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:06 pm

My Awesome Timothy wrote:
bodachi wrote:If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?

I had to slaughter our roosters the other day.  I wore my Tourniquet hat and hummed "If I Had To Do the Killing" while I did it..
Murderer!!!  Crying or Very sad  That's what my kids tell me, they are veggies!!! Only kidding...... I personally don't know how anyone can kill an animal..... I could not do it apart from fishing that's it. So the majority of the time I am vegetarian to.  Haven't touched red meat for years. Is disgraceful the way some animals are killed, IMO if you do eat meat research should be done to make sure the animals are humanely killed.  Some videos I've seen on the web are completely heartbreaking.   Sad

I put them in the garage with the truck running.

Sometimes I feed them than make them go swimming before waiting 30 minutes.

If I'm feeling particularly lazy I lock them in the coop with an Obama autobiography audiobook, a bottle of whiskey and a noose.

Usually (seriously) I decapitate them with one quick swing of my Cold Steel Tactical Katana Machete:



Quick and painless.

After a last cigarette, of course.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by bodachi on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:09 pm

^I always ask the condemned rooster if I can call him a priest, but end up calling them a friar.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by sentient 6 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:13 am

Black Rider wrote:And Greg Boyd is an Open Theist, but that's a different topic.  Cool


Three things always come to mind when I think of Greg Boyd - His open theism, vegetarianism and pacifism. In this topic I was mainly referring to his beliefs on why he believes Christians should not kill animals or eat their meat.


Last edited by sentient 6 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by d@v!d on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:27 am

bodachi wrote:If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?

I had to slaughter our roosters the other day.  I wore my Tourniquet hat and hummed "If I Had To Do the Killing" while I did it..
I was going to say the first post was the best of the thread, but then...
bodachi wrote:
I put them in the garage with the truck running.

Sometimes I feed them than make them go swimming before waiting 30 minutes.

If I'm feeling particularly lazy I lock them in the coop with an Obama autobiography audiobook, a bottle of whiskey and a noose.

Usually (seriously) I decapitate them with one quick swing of my Cold Steel Tactical Katana Machete:



Quick and painless.

After a last cigarette, of course.
seeing this I can't decide.
bodachi wrote:^I always ask the condemned rooster if I can call him a priest, but end up calling them a friar.
Well done!
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by deathisgain on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:48 am

bodachi wrote:^I always ask the condemned rooster if I can call him a priest, but end up calling them a friar.

Shut down the thread on the fact that this is just plain hilarious.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by d@v!d on Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:39 am

I just have to say to all you haters hatin on Ted....

You all a bunch of species-ists. @1:59

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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by johnnycanuck on Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:29 pm

I received a message from Ted as I asked him about the fact that God commanded animals to be used in sacrifice to Him. His answer - God's original perfect plan was totally vegan - we did not kill and eat animals, nor did they do so to each other... Cheers - Ted
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by My Awesome Timothy on Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:46 am

johnnycanuck wrote:I received a message from Ted as I asked him about the fact that God commanded animals to be used in sacrifice to Him. His answer - God's original perfect plan was totally vegan - we did not kill and eat animals, nor did they do so to each other... Cheers - Ted

I don't wanna rock the boat here but I actually kinda get what Ted is saying.  Personally I could never kill an animal to eat although I do squash annoying flies in Summer time!!!  I do eat fish though, would be interesting to hear what Ted thinks about eating fish when Jesus ate fish.  In Heaven won't the lion sit by the lamb, the wolf and chicken play nicely etc .....isn't there a verse in the bible about this trying to remember where it is?  Also I'm guessing we will all be veggies in Heaven as there will be no more death and suffering.  God's original plan bought into fruition, food for thought!!!


Last edited by My Awesome Timothy on Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:51 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Food)
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by johnnycanuck on Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:45 pm

Here is my take on Ted's statement: and yes I am going to wax theological, which will probably put the Kibosh to this thread.

If it was God's original perfect plan, then why was Jesus the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world? Adam and Eve were created good, not perfect, they were not sinless. Defining the state of corruption into which mankind had fallen, Augustine of Hippo set up some parallels and contrasts between man’s estate before the fall and his condition after the fall. Before the fall, Augustine said that man was posse peccare and posse non peccare, that is, man had the ability to sin and the ability not to sin. Not sinning was a possibility that Adam had in the Garden.
In addition to this, Augustine distinguished between our original estate, which involved both the posse mori and the posse non mori. This distinction refers to our mortality. Adam was made in such a way that it was possible for him to die. At the same time, he had the possibility before him of living forever had he not fallen into sin. So both the possibility of sinning and not sinning and the possibility of dying or not dying existed as options for Adam before the fall, according to Augustine.
He further argued that the consequence of the fall upon the human race can be defined this way: since the fall, man no longer has the posse non peccare or the posse non mori. All human beings now have lost the natural ability to keep from sinning and thus to keep from dying. We are all born in the state of sin and as mortal creatures, destined to death. After the fall, Augustine defines our condition as having the posse peccare. We retain the ability to sin, but now we have the dreadful condition of the non posse non peccare. This double negative means that we no longer have the ability to not sin. Likewise, we have now the non posse non mori. It is not possible for us not to die. It is appointed to all of us once to die and then the judgment. The only exceptions to this would be those who remain alive at the coming of Christ.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by deathisgain on Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:06 pm

In Genesis 1.29-30 God states that every seed bearing plant was given for food. The fact that God slayed an animal, was to show the brutality of our sin. A sacrifice was demanded. Then he command Noah in Genesis 9.1-5 that he can eat any animal. I think it safe to assume that men were probably eating animals before that. Maybe not Noah or people that closely followed God (we don't know). Not sure if people were killing animals for their skins. God may have allowed this for a few reasons. Maybe population control for the animals. Maybe just like allowing divorce, he knew that people would eat them anyways, so he gave a pass on it. Of course we know that Mosaic law forbid the practice of eating unclean animals, and Jesus later said it was okay.

As for Jesus? He had to fit in. If he came today, I am sure he would eat a slice of pizza here and there to bond with the people and not come off as some trippy nature dude.

My opinion? I think we place a far higher value on animals today than we ever did. 50 or more years ago, people didn't spend thousands of dollars on their pets to keep them alive. Dog dying? Take it out back shoot it. A friend of mine that grew up on a farm told me that when he was a kid, his dog had puppies. Their father let them keep one and took the others out and drowned them. Sounds cruel, BUT he can't feed all those dogs, so being a farmer he does the "practical" thing and gets rid of them. Now going back further in time, I think people slaughtered animals far less than we do today, because your cow plowed the field, it gave you milk, etc. You wouldn't kill your tractor. On the flip side, I agree that the way that some animals are treated today, is horrendous. My three cents (inflation)
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by WildWorld on Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:13 am

^
Why not just sell or give away the puppies? Heck, the Wal-Mart parking lot (at least where I live) is full of families selling puppies.

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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by deathisgain on Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:23 pm

WildWorld wrote:^
Why not just sell or give away the puppies? Heck, the Wal-Mart parking lot (at least where I live) is full of families selling puppies.

This was 40 or 50 years ago on a rural farm, so it was a different time and place. The point I was making was a change in mentality over the years. I wouldn't kill them and don't know anyone that would, but at the same time, a guy on a rural farm can't take care of all those dogs. My grandfather used to wrong the necks of birds and rabbits. Why? Because they will eat the food you are growing. They are not cute when you are trying to grow to live.
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Re: Tourniquet Ark

Post by johnnycanuck on Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:26 pm

bottom line: Jesus was not a Vegan...
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