Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

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Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:26 am

Democrats love socialism!
What do Venezuelans think about that?
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by Andreas89 on Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:41 am

If you'd define socialism loosely as more taxes to fund way more people and organisations, I'd say that the Netherlands (and Germany too) are pretty socialist, compared to the US at least.
I have had a lot of profit of that so far in my life, and even now the standard of my life is a bit better because of that. Just one thing.

I'm a lazy person, I have to admit. And knowing that there are so many financial safety nets does not help me now that I am trying to rise above my laziness. I think the US has a lot to lose by becoming more socialist, to be honest.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:21 pm

Andreas89 wrote:If you'd define socialism loosely as more taxes to fund way more people and organisations, I'd say that the Netherlands (and Germany too) are pretty socialist, compared to the US at least.
Yeah, that's my impression. I've said before and continue to say that 'socialism is theft in the name of love.' What scares me is the hardy support for Sanders and his like, the horrible ignorance of the immorality of socialism. We also have some socialism in the US and it has increased under the Obama. Besides the fact that it is unsustainable, it's immoral. It unjustly take from one man's labor and gives it arbitrarily to another. As Sumner put it. When Mr. A see that Mr. X has a problem and talks with Mr. B to decide what Mr. C will do to help Mr. X. The socialist politicians are Mr. A & B, you, I and the rest of us are Mr. C. We have no say, we just pay.
I have had a lot of profit of that so far in my life, and even now the standard of my life is a bit better because of that. Just one thing.

I'm a lazy person, I have to admit. And knowing that there are so many financial safety nets does not help me now that I am trying to rise above my laziness. I think the US has a lot to lose by becoming more socialist, to be honest.
Thanks for the candor. Socialism also promotes mediocrity.

The US has a $200 Trillion. Our socialism isn't sustainable. Europe has sustained their socialism because of their very high taxes and because they haven't had to pay for a military as the US has had their backs.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by deathisgain on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:46 pm

So sad to see what is going on there. We know from our own experience with Karam. My wife and I are trying to help another brother in the Lord that is there.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by ImagoDei on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:16 am

"What scares me is the hardy support for Sanders"

I agree and honestly wonder if he actually had more support than Clinton, but the DNC wanted Clinton so made sure they got what they wanted. I found it interesting that, at least in my area, I paid attention, through the entire election I saw one girl with a Clinton shirt, and one car with a Clinton sticker. One. I couldn't count the Sanders stuff, including lawn signs ( never saw a single one of those for Clinton). Clinton may have been much weaker than the media and the DNC driving her forward made her seem to be, especially now given that she also cheated having been fed debate questions prior to, and still couldn't pull enough popular votes to secure the electoral ones. So, the interesting thing to ponder here is, what would have happened if the square off was Sanders vs Trump?

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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:39 am

ImagoDei wrote:"What scares me is the hardy support for Sanders"

I agree and honestly wonder if he actually had more support than Clinton, but the DNC wanted Clinton so made sure they got what they wanted. I found it interesting that, at least in my area, I paid attention, through the entire election I saw one girl with a Clinton shirt, and one car with a Clinton sticker. One. I couldn't count the Sanders stuff, including lawn signs ( never saw a single one of those for Clinton). Clinton may have been much weaker than the media and the DNC driving her forward made her seem to be, especially now given that she also cheated having been fed debate questions prior to, and still couldn't pull enough popular votes to secure the electoral ones. So, the interesting thing to ponder here is, what would have happened if the square off was Sanders vs Trump?
Do you even doubt it enough to ask the question? We'd most certainly have a president Sanders right now.

God gave us Clinton to save us from Sanders. God gave us Trump to save us from Clinton. The lesser of three evils.

This is a testimony to how corrupt the DNC is. Sanders is a fairly honest socialist, really a Marxist but prolly doesn't realize it. Clinton is a very corrupted crook and a Marxest playing the socialist game. The DNC is a den of evil without scruples. If they had any scruples for their causes, they would have allowed Sanders to run.

What's interesting about the DNC is how they've morphed over the years. They were the party of white supremacy and now they play the part of being the party of civil rights while subtlety doing more damage to minorities then when they were the outright sponsors of the Klan. They were a party of socialism, but have been taken over by the hard-line Marxists over the last 40 years.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by ImagoDei on Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:25 pm

David, interesting you bring up the evolution of the democratic party. You may find this video of interest

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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by Black Rider on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:28 pm

This is why i'm leaning Libertarian these days. Both sides are giving out handouts like candy and it's not sustainable.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:18 pm

ImagoDei wrote:David, interesting you bring up the evolution of the democratic party. You may find this video of interest
15 minutes. I listened to the whole thing. A lot of what he said resonates.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:22 pm

Black Rider wrote:This is why i'm leaning Libertarian these days. Both sides are giving out handouts like candy and it's not sustainable.
Yes, to the tune of $200 trillion. The DNC is the party of promoting evil. The RNC has become the party of indifference to evil. The DNC has gone from bad to worse. The battle is to recover the RNC. We'll see. I wonder if an effective righteous 3rd party could arise to replace the rotting RNC. The problem I have with most libertarians isn't in their small gov hands off approach, I like that about them, but their refusal to take moral stands.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by ImagoDei on Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:00 pm

"The problem I have with most libertarians isn't in their small gov hands off approach, I like that about them, but their refusal to take moral stands"


I am a registered libertarian and this is my only issue with the party, and I think Gary Johnson was idiotic on a few things. My moral values don't line up with "do whatever" when it comes to stuff like abortion, but neither of the two majors have done anything to support moral issues either. But I don't fit as a Republican and certainly not as a democrat either.

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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:21 pm

ImagoDei wrote:"The problem I have with most libertarians isn't in their small gov hands off approach, I like that about them, but their refusal to take moral stands"


I am a registered libertarian and this is my only issue with the party, and I think Gary Johnson was idiotic on a few things. My moral values don't line up with "do whatever" when it comes to stuff like abortion, but neither of the two majors have done anything to support moral issues either. But I don't fit as a Republican and certainly not as a democrat either.
Yeah, that's what kills me about the libertarians. They are so close to being on the mark about freedoms and then turn a blind eye to evil as if the left's arguments were sound.

I might be too optimistic, but I think that if people truly understood socialism and its ramifications that dangerous people like Sanders and others in the DNC wouldn't have so much traction.


Last edited by d@v!d on Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by ImagoDei on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:42 am

^ agreed, which brings us full circle- the only people who think socialism is a goodidea are those who have never had to suffer under it. In the case of Americans, I think pro socialists either only see handouts, or they are Starbucks marxists who talk about how they love socialism all the while freely partaking of the benefits of capitalism.

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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by Black Rider on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:00 pm

I also agree, the lack of a moral stance gives me pause.

ImagoDei, you are describing half the people I know in Portland Or.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:35 pm

Klavan explains socialism: satire
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by ImagoDei on Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:37 pm

^ That is hilarious ( because it's true), will have to check out his channel as I've not heard of him

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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:55 am

ImagoDei wrote:^ That is hilarious ( because it's true), will have to check out his channel as I've not heard of him
He works mostly with Ben Shapiro at the Daily Wire. He also has some videos on PJTV.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by Andreas89 on Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:48 am

I'd like to add some nuance to this discussion. Although the choice between socialism and capitalism is an easy one (NOT a no-brainer, because without a brain, it would be socialism), socialism is being presented too simple. Although Klavan isn't wrong or anything, it does make it seem as if every country that is more socialist than the US (like the Netherlands or Germany) is in the same box as the Soviet Union, North Korea and Venezuela. It's as if the other side of the spectrum is used to make US citizens refrain from more socialist leanings. Now I'm all for keeping the US as it is, when it comes to degree of socialist leanings in its structures (except for that blunder called obamacare or whatever), but I'd rather see that happen based on common sense than charicatures.

But don't get me wrong, compared with the countries I've lived in so far, the US seems to have a fairly "small government". And I'm beginning to like that more and more.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:48 am

Andreas89 wrote:I'd like to add some nuance to this discussion. Although the choice between socialism and capitalism is an easy one (NOT a no-brainer, because without a brain, it would be socialism), socialism is being presented too simple. Although Klavan isn't wrong or anything, it does make it seem as if every country that is more socialist than the US (like the Netherlands or Germany) is in the same box as the Soviet Union, North Korea and Venezuela. It's as if the other side of the spectrum is used to make US citizens refrain from more socialist leanings. Now I'm all for keeping the US as it is, when it comes to degree of socialist leanings in its structures (except for that blunder called obamacare or whatever), but I'd rather see that happen based on common sense than charicatures.

But don't get me wrong, compared with the countries I've lived in so far, the US seems to have a fairly "small government". And I'm beginning to like that more and more.
Yeah, of course, but I think that a more true, or nuanced description would kill the comedy. But I think his point was more about exposing the system and how it generates its supporters.

I was listening to Stefan Molyneux and Mike Cernovich discuss Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago this morning. Molyneux crudely but poignantly observes that *clean paraphrase* 'in the west the world is divided into 2 groups of people who have a clue about the history of socialism and communism and those who don't who to him are 'dangerous idiots.'

Thus, I enjoy it when guys like Klavan do comedy bits like this that expose the inherent problems in socialism that tend to get glossed over. I hope that bits like this can seed a hunger to know more and maybe wake people up.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by Andreas89 on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:19 pm

Hmmm, agreed.

Partially off topic, it's really weird to see how different the US and Europe are, at least when it comes to what the state looks like. A lot, and I mean A LOT of people in the Netherlands for instance are mocking the US and especially Trump because they opposed Obamacare. We're so used to government entanglement in healthcare, that we're most of the time oblivious about the fact that that's not normal. But then I realised that it has everything to do with our "big" governments. But most of people don't know, and are regarding the US as some sort of second world country because of that. And the media's anti-Trump and anti-republican attitude is really cringeworthy.

Don't be too hard on people who hold that position though. I know how hard it was to get some insight in how things work in the US.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:56 pm

Andreas89 wrote:Hmmm, agreed.

Partially off topic, it's really weird to see how different the US and Europe are, at least when it comes to what the state looks like. A lot, and I mean A LOT of people in the Netherlands for instance are mocking the US and especially Trump because they opposed Obamacare. We're so used to government entanglement in healthcare, that we're most of the time oblivious about the fact that that's not normal. But then I realised that it has everything to do with our "big" governments. But most of people don't know, and are regarding the US as some sort of second world country because of that. And the media's anti-Trump and anti-republican attitude is really cringeworthy.

Don't be too hard on people who hold that position though. I know how hard it was to get some insight in how things work in the US.
I don't want to be unnecessarily hard on anyone who doesn't get it. I was just quoting Molyneux who was being pejorative, but also justly emphatic.

I''m not sure, how the state healthcare works in Europe, but there is a difference as I understand it between what got hoisted upon us a few years ago and what is done there and that is we still have a private system with socialized payments for the poor where in Europe it is state medicine through and through. Let me know if I'm wrong. We are in this it's not one or the other state. I can understand the criticism if we were all state and were wanting to leave it from the view of people who like state care. Kind of complex subject. I don't' have time to explain all my thoughts on it. But understand, we are in a difficult place where we have a government mandate to purchase insurance that costs keep going up every year, 20% in some cases.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by New Creation on Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:59 pm

I believe this is relevant to the thread. Here is a very recent photo of a bunch of college students at the Victims of Communism Memorial in Washington D.C.

They are flipping off the victims. Since communism is so perfect a system, there are no "victims" according to these losers.

[image]:


Last edited by Kerrick on Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I put the picture in a)
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by Kerrick on Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:03 pm

^Hmm, I guess my "reason for editing" was too long! I put spoiler tags on the picture in case anyone's offended by middle fingers.

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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:51 pm

New Creation wrote:I believe this is relevant to the thread. Here is a very recent photo of a bunch of college students at the Victims of Communism Memorial in Washington D.C.

They are flipping off the victims. Since communism is so perfect a system, there are no "victims" according to these losers.
Thus the poignancy of Molyneux's statement.

Crazy thing is that I'm only beginning to learn about all this. I've always know that all of this is bad, but in only a periphery way. I'm a product of the state education system that doesn't' teach real history.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by alldatndensum on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:26 am

d@v!d wrote:
ImagoDei wrote:^ That is hilarious ( because it's true), will have to check out his channel as I've not heard of him
He works mostly with Ben Shapiro at the Daily Wire. He also has some videos on PJTV.


He looks like Andrew Klavan the author who has had several of his novels turned into movies and is now writing teen fiction in the Christian market.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by Andreas89 on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:31 am

d@v!d wrote:I don't want to be unnecessarily hard on anyone who doesn't get it. I was just quoting Molyneux who was being pejorative, but also justly emphatic.
I wasn't referring to that. I meant that it can be pretty strange to be told that your country is treated in that fashion. Some people might be angry about it, but as almost always one has to realise that it's all because of a lack of knowledge.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:19 am

alldatndensum wrote:
d@v!d wrote:
ImagoDei wrote:^ That is hilarious ( because it's true), will have to check out his channel as I've not heard of him
He works mostly with Ben Shapiro at the Daily Wire. He also has some videos on PJTV.


He looks like Andrew Klavan the author who has had several of his novels turned into movies and is now writing teen fiction in the Christian market.
Yeah, the very same. I recently read his autobiography. Though, I haven't read any of his fiction book or seen any of the movies, yet.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:26 am

Andreas89 wrote:
d@v!d wrote:I don't want to be unnecessarily hard on anyone who doesn't get it. I was just quoting Molyneux who was being pejorative, but also justly emphatic.
I wasn't referring to that. I meant that it can be pretty strange to be told that your country is treated in that fashion. Some people might be angry about it, but as almost always one has to realise that it's all because of a lack of knowledge.
OK. The same goes here. If it weren't for blatant corruption and Trump, we'd very likely has Sanders in charge right now. I may be wrong about him becoming president, but I live in the Left Coast, the land of fruits and nuts and so many people I know think he's wonderful.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by deathisgain on Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:32 am

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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

Post by d@v!d on Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:04 pm

Stalin and Mao killed their millions. Maybe Maduro will join the club.
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Re: Democrats love socialism! What do Venezuelans think about that?

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